Oil Wars

[SlyBones]

OK its been a while. And back at the last round of oil wars, I said I was switching from Delo-400 to Amsoil. And would post a side by side oil analysis. This is on the same truck, with same driver, same commute, etc. Very little difference in towing. Delo had about 100 mi and the amsoil about 300 towing miles. Amsoil interval has about 30HP more power, as the plate was moved up. Both of these are 15w-40. The Delo used the NAPA Gold oil filter and the Amsoil used the Amsoil oil filter. No bypass filter installed on either.



Cant really tell about oil degradation, as I dont have analysis of the oils before sticking them in the truck. So we cant see how much one degrades over the other. The amsoils numbers look better and so it should have longer service life, supporting the increase drain intervals. No difference in wear protection, other than the iron was higher on the amsoil. Dont know why of couse... . Doesnt look like any bad things going on in my engine.



This is not exactly scientific or a controlled study, but is fairly good comparison using the same truck, etc. This is taken from my excel spreadsheet I am gonna keep.



edit - So much for my spacing. Looked fine in editor, but sucked on screen- edit



Info

Date 05/11/01 08/3/01

Oil Delo 400 Amsoil

Sample Miles 4109 4080



Oil Degradation

Viscosity 13. 4 12. 4

%OXD 7. 8 4. 4

%NOX 5. 7 5. 7

TBN 7. 1 12. 8



Contamination

Soot <1. 0 <1. 0

Glycol Neg Neg

%Water 0. 15 <0. 05

%Fuel <1. 0 <1. 0

%Solids NA NA



Wear Metals

Fe 9 21

Cr 1 1

Pb 4 2

Cu 0 1

Sn 3 1

Al 10 8

Ni 2 0

Ag 0 0

Mn 0 0

Mo 0 0

Ti 0 0

V 0 0

Cd 0 0



Contaminant Metals

Si 3 4

B 23 15

Na 9 2



Additive Metals

Mg 27 17

Ca 1792 4350

Ba 0 0

P 1351 1278

Zn 1441 1347

 

[SlyBones]

colums

OK so how do I cleanup the columns. I had it with spaces in between so it all looked nice when typing this all in. Post. View. All the extra spaces looked deleted and the columns dont line up. Is this the same for everyone? Are there setting to change? What?

 

[KatDiesel]

No setting to change... . you would have to use HTML to add a table to make it look nice and neat.



Was your tests done at the same lab? (before someone else asks )

 

[fest3er]

Originally posted by SlyBones

Oil Degradation

TBN 7. 1 12. 8

Wow! Was the Delo *really* down to 7. 1 TBN? If so, it was on the verge of no longer counteracting acids produced by combustion. (TBN is Total Base Number, a measure of the oil's ability to cancel acids in the oil. ) I don't know what neutral is, but I *know* 7. 1 is *real* low.



Fest3er

 

[SlyBones]

Yep, oil analyzers on both tests. both samples taken with the same method.

 

[DocStressor]

You had a little water in your Delo sample. That could have led to the low TBN. Water really accelerates acid formation and also can affect measurement of TBN during the analysis. You had the Delo in over the winter, correct? If the truck was used for short trips during the western Washington winter, you would expect some accumulation due to condensation. It takes a pretty long time to heat the oil in a Cummins to 212 degrees which is necessary to drive off the water. The condemnation limit for TBN is usually 5, so you are ok. The Delo did a good job but needed to be changed out when it was on account of the TBN. Both samples show very little oil degradation (oxidation and nitration).



Can't be sure about the iron. 23 ppm is not really too bad. It is possible that the ester component of the Amsoil is resuspending material that settled out as engine deposits during the time you were using conventional oil. This is pretty typical during the first change of synthetic. You could either change out the Amsoil and filter and sample again after 4K miles or take your present oil out to 7K. Your oil looks fine, but it is not a good idea to try to extended the drain interval on your first change to synthetic.



I have to say that the new Delo is really one impressive conventional oil! It seems that lots of people are seeing wear metal numbers similar to a full synthetic oil over normal drain intervals.

 

[Cooker]

Thanks for the info Sly, and thanks to Lee for the write up.



I too was suprised at the low TBN of the Delo. Does anybody know what the TBN is of the virgin Delo? The idea of condensation makes sense explaining the low number.



-Ryan

 

[Oil Man]

TBN based on the ASTM D 2896 for the Chevron Delo 400 15w-40 engine oil is 11. 3



Kevin

 

[SlyBones]

Extended drain interval

Thanks Lee,



With regards to not extending the drain interval on the first swap to synthetics. Here is what I did and had planned. What should I really do...



-- At this 4K amsoil sample the filter was changed, and 1 qt make up was added to the filter, and 1qt make up was added for loss over the 4K.

-- I am not using a bypass filter

-- My goal was yearly oil changes, about 18K, with 2 filter swaps at 6K and 12K, in the middle. Add make up oil as necessary. Do samples at 12K and 18K to make sure its going OK.

-- I started this in the spring so the oil change was done right after winter. To help remove any water from the winter and so it is fresh for the summer towing season.

-- For this first year I was going to do filter changes twice as often as stated above, to help remove deposits stirred up by the synthetics. I have heard about this, but thought filter changes would be OK. I timed this filter at 4K, not 3K, so I could provide this comparison.

 

[fest3er]

Re: colums

Originally posted by SlyBones

OK so how do I cleanup the columns.

Before your formatted text, put in the word 'code' enclosed with square brackets and the word '/code' enclosed with square brackets after the formatted text. You can edit the post and add this.



This assumes you are allowed to use HTML/VB formatting.



Fest3er

 

[Ken55]

I have been seriously looking to change to a "better" oil in my Cummins but after reading the 1,000,000 mile truck article in the latest issue I don't feel bad about using Shells product anymore. Sure I have to change the oil more often but I really don't mind. Maybe after I start turning up the H. P. then a synthetic will be needed but for a mostly stock truck I feel pretty good with my choice of lubricant.

 

[DocStressor]

Slybones - What you plan on doing sounds fine as long as you use oil analysis and verify that your oil is ok. I learned from my buddy TooSlick that Amsoil's famous warantee requires a change out at 7K for diesel applications UNLESS you back up your extended drain intervals with oil analysis. TooSlick is a new TDR member and is an aerospace engineer who actually studies lubrication technology and reads the SAE literature on a regular basis. He is an Amsoil dealer but is generally pretty unbiased (sort of a Jack Amsoil dealer). You should look up his membership info and e-mail him with your question. He has a wealth of comparative oil analysis data that suggests what works best.



Ken55 - An ISB used in a pickup is really pretty easy on oil. When you consider that the engine is rated as a medium duty diesel and is designed to haul 60K+ CGVW, it is not working very hard in the Ram. Also, the stock 24 valve configurations produce very little soot. So any CH-4, SJ rated oil with the correct viscosity is going to do an adequate job protecting the engine with normal drain intervals. But some oils are better than others. There is a huge difference between conventional oils that use what are known as Group II and Group III bases stocks over those that still use Group I base oils. Group IV and V synthetic oils are even better yet. Additive packages also vary between the different brands although a lot of them use the same stuff. It's not easy to identify the best oils. Most of what you read is marketing hype. But the information is out there if you dig hard enough. Does it make a difference if you are not using one of the best oils? Yes, if you want to extend drain intervals. Otherwise maybe not.