OK, it's official...

[HHhuntitall]

Our Dodge Rams are not perfect, we can agree. But when some of you claim they are junk I will strongly disagree with you.

Well, I think the Dodge's are good trucks. But when you compare them to the First and second Gen's, the newer trucks, by price and durability, are near junk. If it weren't for the Cummins diesel, I don't think they'd be much better than a Furd. The early 2nd gens, 96-97, 12valves, were the height of the Dodge era, in my opinion. I own a small fleet of those trucks, and try to buy whatever I can that's rebuildable or has good parts to keep the others running. I paid $27k for my first '96. I thought that was God-awful high, but for the power it made, and it's fuel mileage, it soon won me over. And after owning it 14 years, I still think it and the other 7 I've bought since then and still have are the best I've ever owned or worked on. Many are never touched except for minor oil leaks and maintanance. All but one are over or appraoching 200k, and going strong!! And that one is my Dad's baby, and you don't drive it without permission!!:-laf



But getting back to the original subject, I've since bought another small fleet of the 3rd gens, issuing the older Dodges to ranch hands and relegating them to the really hard work, which they've handled better than any other vehicle I've ever used. The '03 I bought was first, purchased used as a test run. I gave $29k for it, and thought it was kinda high, but I wanted the 4 door. With it's power and good fuel mileage, I purchased 4 more two years later, to avoid the 6. 7 and emission controls, two '06 4 door, 3/4, 4x4s, and two early '07s, one 4x4 3/4, and one 2x4 dually. I've had the dash out of two of them, completely rebuilt the engine on one, and had the dually to the dealer three times for it missing on two cylinders. The DMFs haven't acted up much yet, but the dually is the workhorse, and when the wiring in the valve cover went bad, I quit driving it while it was being fixed, and went to driving, you guess it, one of my '97s. Seems the front wheel seal started leaking, and when it came in for me to fix, I kept it, much to the dismay of the guy who had been driving it. Now, we touch bases on the fuel mileage. The average fuel mileage, as a whole, went down with ULSD, and it went really down when we went to the new body style. Seems the G56 has a lower overdrive, and combined with the lower gears and the double injection sequence..... :{ Maintanance is up, too. Everthing costs more on the newer truck. And do I even need to get started on the lone '07 6. 7 I purchased as a test truck??!?!?#@$%!



What I'm getting here, is: Yes, the new trucks are a pile compared to the older ones. While still best on the market, they still are regressing from their former glory. And what am I going to do when I can't get parts for these anymore?!?!? I'll have to find a solution somewhere, but I bet it won't be with a new Dodge, unless they curbe their downhill slide... . financially and in quality control.



(passing soap box to next in line... )

 

[BHiggins]

You guys seem to be missing the point... As I stated in the original post, in 21,000 miles I've had 3 no starts, 2 factory recalls, the theft prevention had to be replaced, the radio doesn't work, I've had to replace BOTH batteries and now the clutch. If I had gotten 50,000 out of it before things went downhill, I might be singing a different tune. Unfortunately, I didn't. Neither have many other folks. I don't use the truck every day, so the batteries I can deal with. The factory recalls I can deal with. The other little things like the radio and the alarm, I can deal with. I'm not happy about them, but I can deal. But to only get 21k miles out of a supposed "heavy duty" clutch?! There's something wrong with that. If I was the ONLY ONE having clutch problems, I might think "Ok, I got a bad clutch". But I'm not the only one, it's a common problem which Dodge is doing nothing about. In this thread alone there are several examples of low mileage clutch failures, not to mention my buddy with the '06 who's clutch is being replaced as I type this (@ 31,000 miles). I understand Dodge not being able to warranty "a" clutch, I'm not unreasonable. But to not warranty "many" clutches when CLEARLY there's a problem, IS unreasonable. Shame on Dodge.

 

[Road Dog]

I really think you have dealer issues, which can lead to truck issues. Some dealers seem to be untrusted by customers and Chrysler. My local dealer, OTOH, loves warranty work (and anything that can be turned into a warranty claim) and has no problem getting Chrysler to pay up.

 

[Harlacher]

While I was there they did offer me a SWEET deal on a 2011, complete with a $29,500. 00 trade in on the '08... I was SO tempted. Then they told me it was only $27,500. 00 because the clutch was bad. I told them that if they want me to buy a new truck they would have to eat the clutch, then I walked out.

I would take it to a different dealer and not tell them a thing about the clutch. They will drive it but I doubt they will smart enough to feel it slipping. I would try if it was me. Sounds like you have a truck now that even if you replace the clutch with a south bend you will never like it. I would do my "very" best" to dump it right back it their laps.

 

[HBarlow]

The clutch issue is not an easy problem to solve and it can't be solved by Dodge paying for endless warranty replacements. A warranty replacement would not be a permanent repair for the problem, only a temporary fix.

The problem is, to my knowledge, there are only two styles of automotive clutch assemblies the manufacturer can choose from:

One is the very old, very simple, machined cast iron solid flywheel and clutch. It is bullet proof reliable, and very durable. However, it transmits the massive power pulses of the mighty Cummins inline six cylinder engine at low rpm into the transmission. The old NV-5600 manual transmission used an iron case and could tolerate the low rpm power pulses but the gears and case rattled like marbles in a coffee can at low rpm.

Two is the more "modern" dual mass flywheel assembly which isolates the transmission from the shock loading the mighty Cummins produces at low rpm. The old Gen II trucks rattled like hell when the driver slowed down in second or third gear and then accelerated gently. I believe Dodge engineers, seeking a more refined power train, wanted to eliminate the noise, vibration, and harshness so they chose to equip Gen III and now Gen IV Dodge Rams with the dmf. They may have also been forced into that choice by the aluminum case of the G-56. It may not tolerate the rattling like the NV-5600 did.

Unfortunately, the dmf can't tolerate the mighty Cummins either. The dmf is a weak, failure prone pos. Furd learned that many years ago.

I knew this and ordered my '08 with the outstanding Aisin six speed automatic. It provides better performance, easier driving, more gear ranges, better overdrive cruise, etc. The pickups offer the outstanding new MOPAR six speed automatic.

I would not expect Dodge to continually replace the lousy dmf and clutch assembly under warranty because some owners would need one every year or even more often in high mileage applications.

If enough angry buyers raised a sufficient amount of hell over the issue my guess is Dodge would simply eliminate the manual transmission option.

My comments won't solve your problem or make you happy, but I believe I have summarized the problem. Some may choose to disagree.

 

[rbattelle]

Seems like everything is being made cheaper in order to hold down inflation. Instead of inflating the dollar figure, they deflate quality.

Ironically, as hard as they try to keep the price the same, it still goes up!

Then add in the increasing costs of doing business around here.

It's not just Dodge, and it's not just automobiles. It's happening everywhere. Brian, I think your outrage is well justified.

-Ryan

 

[macdaddy]

Just ordered the South Bend kit, I should have it next week sometime... I also spoke to a friend today who has a 2006 Ram/Cummins 2500 with 30,000 miles. His clutch is slipping too. Junk.

Brian... ...

If you dont mind may i ask what the cost was for everything you need to do the job?.





We plan on doing this on my son's 08 2WD dually.



Mac

 

[BHiggins]

The kit was $1125. 00 plus $100. 00 shipping (three boxes due to the weight of the components). It includes the pressure plate, disc, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, ductile one-piece flywheel and all new hydraulics. The price is well worth it, considering the dealer wanted almost $700. 00 for the crappy factory clutch. They have different clutches for different horsepower levels, and at first I was tempted to buy the heaviest duty clutch they had. However, after I spoke with them they told me it's best that you MATCH the clutch to the power level and not simply go overkill.
South Bend Clutch - Dodge clutch kits and Kevlar Pilot Brgs. Dnya Max Clutch Kits for high performance.

 

[Wingate]

Sounds like you have made the right decision... . WHile I don't have a manual trans, I have heard and read nothing but good things out of SBC components. Are you doing the install yourself? Dealer? Independent shop?

 

[macdaddy]

Thanks Brian. Seems reasonable to me.



I agree about matching the clutch to the power output from the motor. Too much clutch spells launch shutter. I have a friend with a 01 HO that installed a SB unit and went way overkill. The clutch he removed was like new with 60K miles.



Mac

 

[BHiggins]

@Wingate... I'm having it done by a trusted local independent mechanic (there's no way in hell I would PAY the dealer to fix it). I'm getting too old to be rolling around the driveway in the cold, I'd rather pay someone to do it for me.

 

[BHiggins]

Received the South Bend Clutch today, it looks like a real nice piece of engineering. The install is going to have to wait until after Christmas, I'll re-post when it's in.

 

[BHiggins]

Update: The clutch is done, and I can highly recommend the South Bend kit. The pedal feel is slightly harder than factory, but engagement feels better than stock. It's a very smooth engagement, not harsh like you would expect out of a heavy duty clutch. The only way I can explain it is to say it feels like a more positive engagement. The stock clutch had a slightly "murky" feel to it (which I attribute to the dual-mass flywheel). Here's the kicker... The entire "old" clutch looked brand new. The friction disc looked new, the pressure plate and flywheel surfaces looked fine, and the pressure plate still had TONS of clamping pressure. In other words, there's no way it was the clutch slipping. The only possible explanation is the flywheel itself was the culprit. The dual-mass unit was slipping internally (all the visible internal parts were rattling around loosely, a sure sign of failure in my opinion). I believe that in time, the flywheel would have "grenaded" causing untold damage to the bell housing, transmission and possibly the engine... It was THAT BAD. With that being the case, it would have, could have, and SHOULD HAVE been covered by warranty. However, I'm glad in a way that they didn't cover it. If they had, I would have the same crappy 20,000 mile factory clutch as opposed to a nice new heavy duty South Bend unit with a one-piece ductile flywheel (the clutch the truck should have had in the first place). Now I can have some peace of mind and KNOW I have a trust-worthy clutch in the truck. All together it cost $1125. 00 + $100. 00 shipping, and another $700. 00 for the install for a grand total of $1925. 00 for a repair on a truck that's still under warranty. I will be bringing the old parts up to Dodge, I don't expect anything to come from it but maybe they'll know what to look for next time (instead of ASSUMING the driver burnt the clutch).

 

[Cattechcolt]

My 03' had a warranty clutch put in at 14,000 miles, and at 30,00, when it happened again, I did the smart thing and installed a South Bend Dual Disk... best money spent, and I don't have to worry about the clutch any more. Doesn't slip at all even with 100hp. injectors and tnt tuned smarty on >9, and is smooth engaging. call Peter Or Mansil... they can hook you up.

 

[Wingate]

Glad to hear that you now are one step closer to having the truck that Dodge should have built. I have heard nothing but good things about SB... congrats!!

 

[BHiggins]

I spoke to Dodge Corporate headquarters in Utah, and started a case. I told them that the service rep at the dealer was ADAMANT that the slippage could ONLY BE CAUSED by a worn clutch disc, and that the disc was considered a "wear item" and wasn't covered. Then I told them that the clutch disc and ALL OTHER clutch parts looked brand new, and the slipping was caused by a dual mass flywheel failure (which WOULD HAVE been covered under warranty). Since I was out of pocket almost $2000. 00 because of the Dodge dealer's misdiagnosis, I feel I should be reimbursed... They agreed, but said they needed to contact the dealer to investigate the claim further. The rep at the dealer was a bit of a jerk, so I'm curious to see if he owns up to his mistake... I doubt he will. Even if he doesn't, the facts speak for themselves.

 

[Wiredawg]

All,



I'm coming in way late to be commenting on this thread... back to the top and middle: There is way big difference in driving styles on 1st, 2nd and 3rd Gen trucks. I shifteted my /W250 about 1,700 to 2,000 rpm; my 2nd Gen shift at 2,500 on normal acceleration and about 3,400 under power acceleration. I see lots of folks shifting these new(er) trucks at much lower rpm and acellerating up to running RPM (2,000 RPM).



I'm not criticizing anyone's driving style or assessments. This is my owm observation driving 1st and 2nd Gen Standards. My newest addition is an auto, so can't speak specifically to the dual mass setup.



Anyway, one more thought to the pile on this.



Take care, Wiredawg

 

[BHiggins]

Dodge is doing nothing for me (as I expected). I spoke to the case manager today, they claim my dispute is with the dealer and not Chrysler. I told them the problem had been misdiagnosed by the dealer, and now I'm out almost $2000. 00 because of their mistake. Am I being unreasonable? I was told BY THE DEALER that the clutch was bad, and the clutch isn't covered under warranty. The slipping problem was NOT the clutch, but the dual-mass flywheel. The flywheels have a "friction ring" internally between the primary and secondary flywheels, and that's what was slipping. Obviously the flywheel WOULD HAVE been covered under warranty, but because of the DEALER'S clutch misdiagnosis I brought the truck to an independent mechanic. I'm not expecting Dodge to pay for the whole thing, but AT LEAST reimburse me the cost of a new dual-mass flywheel... I don't think that's an unreasonable request.

 

[hwebster]

Well I am offically on my 4th clutch... 1st Stock lasted only 40,000Miles (my '03 had 200,000+ on it's first) - I lost my head and didn't go after market - same syptoms started up by 50,000Miles so I went Southbend. Amazing how much crap is wrapped around the Cummins by Dodge - of course some of the biggest crap comes from the eggheads in ivory towers...

 

[HBarlow]

Dodge is doing nothing for me (as I expected). I spoke to the case manager today, they claim my dispute is with the dealer and not Chrysler. I told them the problem had been misdiagnosed by the dealer, and now I'm out almost $2000. 00 because of their mistake. Am I being unreasonable? I was told BY THE DEALER that the clutch was bad, and the clutch isn't covered under warranty. The slipping problem was NOT the clutch, but the dual-mass flywheel. The flywheels have a "friction ring" internally between the primary and secondary flywheels, and that's what was slipping. Obviously the flywheel WOULD HAVE been covered under warranty, but because of the DEALER'S clutch misdiagnosis I brought the truck to an independent mechanic. I'm not expecting Dodge to pay for the whole thing, but AT LEAST reimburse me the cost of a new dual-mass flywheel... I don't think that's an unreasonable request.

No, you're not being unreasonable but your anger, frustration, and demands are being directed at the wrong entity. It was apparently an incompetent dealer who gave you bad information, not Dodge.

Each and every dealer is an independent business entity who is responsible for the decisions they make, the advice they give, and the work they do.

You should consult a local attorney and discuss the facts. If your attorney agrees, he could send a written demand letter to the dealer insisting that the dealership compensate you for your damages but only if he thinks you have a case. Sometimes lawyers can't cause a business to step up and act responsibly short of an actual lawsuit.

I know nothing about the laws of NY but in TX and many states an amount that small can be sued for in small claims court relatively easily.

A key element to this case is whether Dodge would cover the dual mass flywheel under warranty with your odometer mileage or not. I don't know what Dodge's policy would be. I do know that clutch assemblies are normally considered a wear item and not covered beyond something like 12 months, 12,000 miles. Don't know if that applies to the dual mass flywheel assembly also.

I don't blame you for being upset about the cost of the new clutch and flywheel assembly but now you have a permanent repair. If the dealer had replaced the lousy dual mass flywheel with another pos out of the MOPAR box, it would have just been a delaying tactic that would have only kicked the can down the road a short distance. You would experience the same failure again in a similar amount of time or miles. They all fail and you would have ultimately ended up doing what you have done at your own expense anyway. Looking at it from the sunny side, you actually saved yourself some grief by making the conversion now and avoiding more additional frustration later.