Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) On the EDGE, looking for an EZ solution.

[MErickson1]

I was thinking of picking up an Edge EZ aswell, I'am not so sure if I should now. My truck is stock with 56,000 m on it.



This is going to sound like a stupid question but what is a vp44 ?.



Thanks !



Matt

 

[d.miner]

Matt,



The VP44 is the fuel injection pump.



I don't believe my issue is/was the Edge EZ, Edge has been very good to send me out replacements, this is now my 3rd unit. My truck is now doing this same thing (though to a milder degree) stock.



If you're thinking about an upgrade at this point, I would encourage you to look into the "Smarty" programmer. It plugs into your truck's DRBII port under the dash and within 2 minutes reprograms your ECM... anywhere from mild to... ???.



Here's a link to that thread if you're interested in reading up on it:



http://www.nwbombers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19856&hl=smarty



There are a lot of upgrade choices out there so take your time and read up. Once you move away from stock, you will most likely never go back. Our engines have tremendous power potential while still being a daily driver.



Happy hunting,



Dan

 

[snidley1]

If someone could explain what a apps is and why you would reset it and how? I would

appreciate it. Im not sure what they are talking about. Just wondering If doing this might help my truck with this hesitation I am having with my comp (EZ no wire tap)

Thanks

Todd

 

[MErickson1]

Matt,



The VP44 is the fuel injection pump.



I don't believe my issue is/was the Edge EZ, Edge has been very good to send me out replacements, this is now my 3rd unit. My truck is now doing this same thing (though to a milder degree) stock.



If you're thinking about an upgrade at this point, I would encourage you to look into the "Smarty" programmer. It plugs into your truck's DRBII port under the dash and within 2 minutes reprograms your ECM... anywhere from mild to... ???.



Here's a link to that thread if you're interested in reading up on it:



http://www.nwbombers.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19856&hl=smarty



There are a lot of upgrade choices out there so take your time and read up. Once you move away from stock, you will most likely never go back. Our engines have tremendous power potential while still being a daily driver.



Happy hunting,



Dan

Thanks very much Dan !



I will look into that programmer... . thanks !

 

[d.miner]

Snidley,



Apps = Accellerator Pedal Position Sensor.



Various reasons to reset the apps, all you are doing is basically allowing the throttle to "remember" all over again. Our throttles are electronic rather than cable and sometimes the reset helps.



If you do a search for Apps, I'm sure you will find the reset steps. It could help your issue and I doubt if it will hurt anything.



It's something along the lines of: both negative battery cables off for a period of time, re-connect, turn the key on and off 3 times and then leave it on... . slowly depress the throttle to the floor (this is the new memory portion) and then slowly let it up, turn the key off.



Good luck,



Dan

 

[Bob Wagner]

I have a an 02/6sp/federal ecm that I would be happy to send you for testing purposes only. no charge.



I hope maybe this will help.

 

[snidley1]

Thanks for the answer Dan the battery cables are unhooked as we speak.



Todd

 

[PC12Driver]

d. miner, quick test: do you hear the timing changes when the cruise control is set?



On our trucks, a given throttle setting calls for a specific rpm, just like a mechanical governor. But our electronic pumps can vary the timing based on engine load, which is the difference between the rpm that is called for (pedal position) vs. the actual engine rpm. If the difference in the two rpm values is small, the engine is lightly loaded and will advance the timing for economy. Large differences mean more load and less timing advance.



If your APPS is flaking out and randomly calling for rapid increases and decreases in engine speed, the surges may be small enough that the fueling adjustment won't be felt (especially lightly loaded in top gear at highway speeds), but you could hear the change in the sound of the "hammering" from the change in timing advance (which would then be amplified by a timing box such as an EZ or Comp).



Long story short; your APPS does have control over timing, and a noisy APPS could show up as timing surges.

 

[flattracker]

Have had the same condition for several years on my 01 much worse in cold weather .

Replaced the van aaken problem still there, replaced the map sensor problem still there, replaced vp44 problem still there.

Our trucks have a battery temperature sensor that raises the charging voltage in cold weather bingo!!!

Leave your lights on for about three hours so the batteries are low enough to absorb all of the alternators current and the voltage regulator is not cycling and go drive your truck and the problem is gone.

So know that I think I have fiqured out the cause of the problem someone with much better electrical engineering skills than I can maybe fiqure out the cure.

 

[d.miner]

UPDATE as promised

Well, as it turns out we did not reprogram the ECM, I was able to replace it temporarily.



Bob Wagner of Wagner and Associates sent out a used CaTCHer ECM that was a direct match to my truck. With the ECM changed, the problem went away.



Not just during a drive down the block and back, I drove it home from Moscow,ID. to Kennewick, WA. And not just for that amount of time... I drove it to and from work over the same roads and conditions for the next 2 weeks without a problem.



From a technical point of view, the ECM change made the difference.



From the "FUN" point of view it was hard to give up the CaTCHer. Marco has done a great job on the re-program of our ECM's and the change was amazing. The last weekend before I was going to take it off I went out and hooked up to the 5th wheel just so I could know the difference when pulling between the EZ and the CaTCHer under load. Again, I was pleased... . more boost, lower EGT's, faster throttle response.



Anyway... back to the real world. I changed the ECM back, hooked the EZ back up and the problem was just about all gone... ? It still does it at rare times but no where near what it was doing.



The plan from here on out is to keep driving it with the EZ on, watch for codes and see. The one thing I am keeping in mind is what Cliff and others have said here... warmer weather seems to help.



I'll keep driving and see where it takes me, as things change I'll update this thread. We seem to do the best learning from each other.



Dan

 

[ERuhl]

shoot, and I thought it was just my truck that did this!!!



It only happens under 45F

Same issue here. It showed up when I installed the Mach 1. 6 injectors and the cold weather rolled in. When it's above ~45°F it's nice and smooth, but in colder weather it shakes and shudders under load in the mid-throttle range. It feels just like a gas motor does when it has an intermittent miss.



Initially this happened with my TTPM and the shudder dissappeared with the datalink plug disconnected (running on the injectors alone and the TTPM as a boost fooler), silky smooth performance. Plugged the datalink connector back in an the shudder returns immediately. The shudder was there no matter what setting I used, and the TTPM offered a "timing only" setting. This means it isn't a fuel issue (fuel psi was always good btw) and absolutely a timing issue. So of course I though something was wrong with the TTPM and sent it in, and it was replaced with an EZ. It was warm when I installed it and thought the problem was solved, but as soon as the cold weather returned so did the shudder. With the EZ I don't have the "timing only" option, but clearly the TTPM wasn't the problem so I have no reason to suspect the fueling component of the EZ. The timing at cold temperatures is the sole suspect. Unplug the EZ datalink connector when it's cold and again the shudder disappears and the smooth power returns.



After searching on here I noted the link to temperature and started to take notice and sure enough, when it's cold it shudders and when it's warm it's smooth (this is with the EZ plugged in, again it's always smooth with just injectors). Having determined that it's temperature related I replaced the IAT sensor. It appears to have helped slightly, but the shudder is still there in cold temperatures.



Wherever the EZ is getting it's temperature info from, I'd like to see someone devise a way to limit the lower reading much like a boost fooler. Don't let the EZ see anything below 45°F and see what happens in cold weather. It's disappointing because I noticed no shudder whatsoever when I was running the TTPM on stock injectors regardless of temperature. The EZ just doesn't get along with both larger injectors and cold weather at the same time. A more ideal solution would be for Edge to determine what is happening to the timing curve at cold temperatures and fix it.



I've searched for similar behavior exhibited by competing products and this appears to be limited to Edge products (both the Comp and the EZ / TTPM)? Has anyone seen this behavior in a non-Edge product?

 

[d.miner]

End of the line:



VP died, Dodge replaced the VP and said the lift pump was bad. They installed the new in tank pump and my pressures went way down.



Traded it in on an 06.