One Ford. Two Dodges.Two Silvarados

[Eric_77]

Or how about the GMC commercial where they say "if an M1 tank can have an Allison automatic transmission, then why not your truck?" Give me a break. The M1 also has a gas turbine engine - should my truck have one of those too? Why stop there - maybe my truck should have a 120mm cannon on it too!





-Ryan

I got a real kick out this too but you left out one part it says the "M1 tank has a heavy duty Allison transmission... " ah the reason no pick up has a heavy duty Alision trans is because the things weigh as much as a tank so the Chevy only get the weak light duty Alsion that can not even hold the lowest rated torque of the three in low or top gears (Chevy has the engine defuel to keep from tearing up their beloved Allison transmission)



The new Ford commercial has got me going as well it adverties late availalbility 19,xxx towing capacity. Well add that to the GVW of the truck you now have a CDL class A truck license needed. Any bets the dealer notifies potental(sp?) customers of that?

 

[rbattelle]

The new Ford commercial has got me going as well it adverties late availalbility 19,xxx towing capacity. Well add that to the GVW of the truck you now have a CDL class A truck license needed. Any bets the dealer notifies potental(sp?) customers of that?

It's a trick. They actually manage to offer a 19200 lb towing capacity AND keep GVWR at 26k (or so I've read). They do this by offering the 19200 lb rating only on a stripped-down 2wd dually with a nice short wheelbase. So they get the weight of the truck down below 6800 lb, and bingo... 19200 lb towing capacity.



-Ryan

 

[pwerwagn]

If you go to the horizon transport page and check out the employees rides, there are a few PSD's. I think there was one with over 500K on it, dont remember exactly, though.

 

[rbattelle]

Check out their "The Truth about Trucks" video presentation on their F-150 website.

I notice they've got a new "Truth About Trucks" series for the new Superduty.



The engine and cooling videos are particularly interesting.



Specifically, the discussion of main bearings Cummins vs. Duramax vs. PS. PS uses a bed plate whereas Cummins and DMax use traditional caps. Cummins uses 2-bolt caps, and DMax has 4-bolt caps.



Water pump impeller diameter is also interesting. Cummins has the smallest of the 3.



The implication (by Ford) is that the Cummins (and DMax) aren't built to work hard. Ironic, considering the Cummins is an option on F650 and F750.



I suspect that the Cummins water pump is sized appropriately to the engine displacement, number and size of cooling passages, radiator size, and coolant capacity. Water pump size alone is a poor discriminator of cooling system performance.



But what about the 2-bolt mains? I suspect the Cummins can run smaller 2-bolt main caps because there are 7 bearings rather than 5 (that's 40% more bearings). There's no mention of the bearing diameters of each of these engines, so we can't calculate the relative surface area of each.



Ryan

 

[JasonCzerak]

Wow... just freaking wow.



So, what I've learned:



Ford came up with sequential turbos (tho, that's neat to make the small VG)



Ford (they) came up with pizeo injectiors. .



Ford has the quietest diesel (BUUUULL crap, the 6. 7 is disgustingly gasser quite, I had to shutoff the 6. 4 I test drove off to talk next to an open hood!)



Ford thinks it's important to have an efficient motor... really? 9mpg is good?





The injectors is buried deep inside the block... Cute, lets take it down to the long block to replace them



Short block and the main caps. I do find it funny how they neglect the fact that the Cummins has more mains, good to bring that up there rbattelle. I'd like it point out the obvious aftermarket HP gains. How many Fords or Chevy's are making over 1200hp on the STOCK BOTTOM END... ..... How many at mear 700hp?



ROFLOL... -20? That's it? ROFLOL!!!!!! If I recall in my manual for my truck I'm supposed to plug in my truck at -30 if I want to guarantee it to start. Tho, yes, this is A HUGE improvement over the 6. 0 and 7. 3 bucket of bolts rattling around in cold starts.



Franky, you need a waterpump to push water though that rather large radiator. I agree with rbattelle again, I'm sure Cummins has a properly designed water pump for the motor at hand. The only time my truck gets warm is when twice the factory rated fuel is dump in to the motor and I'm running 50psi of boost out of a stock turbo..... and that's only 10 degree more by the time I hit 120mph. Not bad if I say so my self.



At the end there. I do like how they claim "quietest "FORD" diesel pickup". . ha ha ha This is true, that's about it.



Shift on the fly 4x4. Sorry, they are not that "fast" to shift and often just don't come out of 4x4. I've never liked them and will never own them. I've driven a few trucks and suv's with that option and it wasn't as quick and convenient as a manual 4x4 lever.



Dual sequential turbos. The wording is just not right. Most would read "sequential turbos" as a minimum of two turbos by default. I dunno that's just me maybe.

 

[hammersley]

That had an aluminum head and while a great step

As far as Hemis go, Jeep was the first company to put a hemi engine in a truck. :-laf In 1962, J-trucks and Wagoneers came out with the fire-breathing 140HP Tornado 230 6-cyl overhead cam engine, with hemispherical combustion chambers

Forward - had a terrible time with oil seals..... I remember the original Wagoneer switched to this engine in 1963 when they went to the new body style - and started the SUV craze!!!!

 

[rbattelle]

I have to give credit to Ford - this is very effective marketing.

But there's the truth, and then there's the "truth". Ford's own marketing, ironically, is not self-consistent. Check out the marketing brochures for F-650/750, (for which the 6. 4 isn't even an option anymore). They talk about how wonderful the Cummins 6. 7L is (and the Cat C7). I mean, can't you dispatch any Cummins vs. PS argument by simply asking if the PS is superior to Cummins, why isn't it offered on F-650/750? [I think the Ford guys hate that tactic, but it's true].

They pick and choose what parts to compare in such a way that the geometry looks different (in Ford's favor). I would expect them to do this.

I liked the bit about the lower control arms. Indeed, Ford has some very large arms. I disagree with them that it's meaningful in any way to compare the Chevy control arms (IFS) with theirs.

Admittedly, the Dodge control arms are pretty pathetic looking (although we have 4 of them whereas Ford has only 2, so theirs have to be quite a bit bigger).

They also talk about how strong the hydroformed front frame is. Okay, then why not hydroform the entire truck? There are good reasons not to, but they fail to discuss any.

In the towing section they discuss brakes, but never mention the diameter of their rotors. Anyone know what it is? I'm wondering if it's smaller than the Dodge.

Great marketing by Ford. And they do build a great machine. But I think there's a reason it's not called "The Whole truth About Trucks".

What would be really great is if Dodge and Chevy both did exactly the same videos as a direct answer to Ford.

But truck/vehicle marketing is exactly like politics - no one ever gives you the complete, unbiased truth. There's always tricks going on.

I did take a little guilty pleasure in the way they responded to Toyota's marketing. Especially the ring gear. (That was in the 1/2 ton "Truth" videos).

Ryan

 

[Giachino]

Or how about the GMC commercial where they say "if an M1 tank can have an Allison automatic transmission, then why not your truck?" Give me a break. The M1 also has a gas turbine engine - should my truck have one of those too? Why stop there - maybe my truck should have a 120mm cannon on it too!

-Ryan

I'm thinking a a 120mm and . 50 cal would be a nice complement to the smoke generation!

 

[TFucili]

I'm thinking a a 120mm and . 50 cal would be a nice complement to the smoke generation!

Works wonders at rush hour...

 

[HBarlow]

I have to give credit to Ford - this is very effective marketing.



But there's the truth, and then there's the "truth". Ford's own marketing, ironically, is not self-consistent. Check out the marketing brochures for F-650/750, (for which the 6. 4 isn't even an option anymore). They talk about how wonderful the Cummins 6. 7L is (and the Cat C7). I mean, can't you dispatch any Cummins vs. PS argument by simply asking if the PS is superior to Cummins, why isn't it offered on F-650/750? [I think the Ford guys hate that tactic, but it's true].



They pick and choose what parts to compare in such a way that the geometry looks different (in Ford's favor). I would expect them to do this.



I liked the bit about the lower control arms. Indeed, Ford has some very large arms. I disagree with them that it's meaningful in any way to compare the Chevy control arms (IFS) with theirs.



Admittedly, the Dodge control arms are pretty pathetic looking (although we have 4 of them whereas Ford has only 2, so theirs have to be quite a bit bigger).



They also talk about how strong the hydroformed front frame is. Okay, then why not hydroform the entire truck? There are good reasons not to, but they fail to discuss any.



In the towing section they discuss brakes, but never mention the diameter of their rotors. Anyone know what it is? I'm wondering if it's smaller than the Dodge.



Great marketing by Ford. And they do build a great machine. But I think there's a reason it's not called "The Whole truth About Trucks".



What would be really great is if Dodge and Chevy both did exactly the same videos as a direct answer to Ford.



But truck/vehicle marketing is exactly like politics - no one ever gives you the complete, unbiased truth. There's always tricks going on.



I did take a little guilty pleasure in the way they responded to Toyota's marketing. Especially the ring gear. (That was in the 1/2 ton "Truth" videos).



Ryan

I agree with you, Ryan. Ford's advertising is highly impressive and effective. I'd guess they spend $10M a year on it, maybe more. They badly need all the hype to keep selling those dogs with the lousy IH engine. Just for curiosity I picked up the new Ford truck and trailering brochures recently. They are interesting for their bold adjectives, overstated hype, and dramatic photography. I guess it works with some. They are still selling fairly well inspite of the disastrous 6. 0 and less than impressive 6. 4 engines.



Harvey

 

[rbattelle]

I'd guess they spend $10M a year on it, maybe more.

$10M would be a drop in the bucket. I'd bet their ad budget for Super Duties is over $100M per year.



Ryan

 

[Buck88]

Sshhh! Let the ford guys believe that their trucks are superior... Keeps em' from buying Dodges and adding up hp by reading the ratings on the upgrades they buy!

 

[Buck88]

As for the logo... buddy of mine that owns a chevy showed this to me:-laf