opinions on the 1st gen front end.

[GreggNoble]

hi, i have 2 2001 dodge 4x4 cummins rams one is a quad cab auto 2500 and the other is a flat deck dump truck 3500 6 speed 4x4 single cab. i have had such a battle with the front end on these trucks that i`m wondering if this all started after they took away the leaf spring front end in 1994. if i had the ball joints and trackbars ,wheel bearing assemblies,drag links etc. that i have put on these trucks it would be a load for the 2500 ha ha ha

how long lasting was the leaf spring setup?

Has anyone here ever put a leaf spring suspension on a 2nd gen?

Worst off all on my trucks is the ball joints ,if i get a year i`m lucky, yes i use them on dirt roads but i go easy on them too!

i have learned to buy all lifetime warrenty parts but ball joints are still a big job even if the part is free.

seems like to me that every 2nd gen ram should have been recalled by chrysler and the front end totally redesigned! lol thanks

 

[TBartlett1]

1st gen front ends are pretty much bullet proof if you own a grease gun.

 

[Paychk]

hi, i have 2 2001 dodge 4x4 cummins rams one is a quad cab auto 2500 and the other is a flat deck dump truck 3500 6 speed 4x4 single cab. i have had such a battle with the front end on these trucks that i`m wondering if this all started after they took away the leaf spring front end in 1994. if i had the ball joints and trackbars ,wheel bearing assemblies,drag links etc. that i have put on these trucks it would be a load for the 2500 ha ha ha

how long lasting was the leaf spring setup?

Has anyone here ever put a leaf spring suspension on a 2nd gen?

Worst off all on my trucks is the ball joints ,if i get a year i`m lucky, yes i use them on dirt roads but i go easy on them too!

i have learned to buy all lifetime warrenty parts but ball joints are still a big job even if the part is free.

seems like to me that every 2nd gen ram should have been recalled by chrysler and the front end totally redesigned! lol thanks

The one truth ,for me, is that lifetime parts only warranty me a lifetime of replacing them once a year. The best parts for a front-end, IMHO, are MOOG. But in this day & age even that is no guaranty.

 

[GHarman]

First Gen Front axle

As mentioned above, they are "bullet proof"! You can upgrade the spring package. If you 4X4 alot, it may be necessary. I have owned two, a 91. 5 and the 93. The 93 was a gift from Dave Valentine and he did replace the front springs.

The thing about the 1st gen front ends is they road like a horse drawn freight wagon. You will feel every bump and rock, larger than a pea, that you drive over. The suspension is not gentle:-laf.

The axle is a hunk of "arn" that is made to be serviced. The kingpins/bearings just keep going as long as you keep 'em greased! You have lockout hubs and separate hub bearings/races that can be serviced or readily replaced. On my 91. 5 the knuckle u-joints were greasable. Some parts are hard to find, like tie rods(had to make my own, when the one on the 93 fell apart).

I like the looks of the new trucks, but plan on continuing on with "old iron". Although my ability to do my own maintainence is slowly diminishing, I hope I will not ever have to buy another truck. GregH

 

[GreggNoble]

thanks guys, sounds like i bought my trucks 10 years too late!!!!!! ha ha ha the fact off a stiffer ride would mean nothing to me. thats why i have a "clean clothes " suv ha ha

i`m not getting the picture of how King pins work on a 4x4,sounds like the pin would be in the way off the side axle gettin out to the wheels?

i have both my trucks lifted 2" in front anyway and trust me they ride like the flintstone car ha ha ha.

think i`m goona keep my eyes open for a 1993 cummins ram thanks

 

[GHarman]

GerggNoble, I've heard them called Trunions and bearings, also. Either way, they are pivots for the steering spindles and are located at the top and bottom of the C-knuckle. GregH



PS. Old trucks in good shape are collectors pieces. Ugly old trucks have character. Everybody avoids you:-laf! On the road or in a parking lot

 

[GreggNoble]

ok , i understand, when i picture a king pin i imagine a long shaft running full length of the spindle like in my freightliner tractor, have you ever known anyone to put a 1st gen axle on a second truck? it would be a project no doubt!

 

[TBartlett1]

King Pin is a carryover from the old days when the spindle turned on replaceable pins and bushings.

Heavy trucks still use large kingpins.

They are called King Pins because essentially the spindle has a top & bottom pin rather than ball-joints.

The top pin which is replaceable turns in a split UHMW plastic bushing that is held in place by a heavy spring.

The bottom pin supports a Timken tapered roller bearing.

This arrangement is very durable and easy to service if needed.

I put over 250k on my 1st gen with zero issues.

On another w250 I purchased I replaced the upper plastic bushing which was worn.

Replacement was very easy taking approx 1 hour with no special tools needed.

 

[GreggNoble]

so how difficult would it be to put a 1st gen axle under a 2001 2nd gen?

 

[Coalsmoke]

Not being very up on the first gens I'm just going by memory of when I saw them in the shop, which was generally a rare occasion.

For starters one of the big questions would be diff alignment and whether the first gen diffs are on the drivers side or passenger side? That I don't remember.

I guess if that was a go you'd have to fabricate some spring shackle mounts off of the 4 link connector brackets. Then you'd have to look at frame lengths to make sure there is enough room ahead of the front axle on the 2nd gen for the front mounts while allowing proper spring articulation. Then figure out your linkages and lastly you'd want to make sure that the input yokes on the two diffs were compatible so that you didn't need to order 1 of a kind u-joints for it.

Its something that could probably be done, although I've not seen it in person. If I were to try this I'd want to find a wrecked donor truck so that you could steal parts as needed without having to make everything blind.

For what its worth in 2008 they changed the front ends on these trucks for the better. That may be another option to look at.

 

[GreggNoble]

Thanks Coalsmoke, i don`t think i`ll be trying the axle swap but it would be interesting to see it done . i was unaware that there were serious design improvements in the 2008 2500s ! is tere still a track bar? heavier ball joints? etc?

 

[Coalsmoke]

Please note I didn't say serious design improvements per se but rather improvements for the better. Don't be thinking that there is a $10,000 baja capable suspension under the 08s. What they did do is change some linkage geometries so that the front ends of these heavy trucks are no longer pounding themselves apart nearly as bad. There were some notable design flaws in the previous year trucks that have been more or less worked out in the 08 front end.

 

[GreggNoble]

thanks, any improvment is a plus, hey i think you are the 1st canadian that i have spoken to since joining TDR , i`m a whole country away though here in Newfoundland&labrador ha ha can you tell me some good places in canada to get the products that are talked about on this site? like FASS lift pump products? Raptor lift pumps? all sorts of improvment products,it seems everything is in the USA . thanks

 

[Coalsmoke]

Hey Greg, there are a few of us canucks on here. I have found that I buy everything from either Peak Diesel Performance and PDR aka Piers Diesel Research, both located in BC Canada. They are both good companies. I have had bad customer service from BD Diesel and tend to not buy from them as a result.

 

[Shadrach]

Check out this thread on the 3rd gen site. Carli has a good reputation and good products. Shadrach
https://www.turbodieselregister.com...s/222406-new-carli-lower-issue-check-out.html

 

[pwerwagn]

A first gen axle under a 2nd gen would be a major PITA. 1st gens are passenger diffs.



However, there is a solution... use a king pin front from a OBS ford. Or the other option is an AAM from a 3rd gen, since there are carli ball joints available and you can convert it to a dynatrac hub/real wheel bearing setup that would last well too. Ive had no problems with my 9. 25 other than ball joints.



The 08's have minor upgrades, nothing major. About the only main thing is they are a true crossover steering setup, no toe change through the cycle. The steering box has a larger sector shaft as well. Bout it...



Oh and if you think your 2" lifted 2nd gen rides like a flinstone car, you need to ride in a 1st gen. I have 3 of them... the ride is night and day worse in a 1st gen. I dont mind it... but nobody wants to ride with me.



--Jeff