Hello. I'm looking for feedback from people who have used the "Dodge Steering Stabilizer (DSS)" to support the pitman arm on their steering boxes. Last year I had a leaky seal replaced on my steering box. I noticed when my steering wheel is rocked back & forth there is some play between the pitman arm and the housing. Obviously some wear. Also when I go around corners on the highway I notice a slight "tapping" or knocking is telegraphing through the steering wheel. Nothing appears loose under the truck so I'm assuming it's the excessive wear in the steering box. Will purchasing one of these Dodge Steering Stabilizers help get rid of this trouble. Thanks in advance for any help.
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2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Opinions wanted - Dodge steering trouble
- Thread starter BAIrwin
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Brian, yes it will help, I would also recommend a simple inexpensive bushing
'Rock Solid' Ram Truck Steering !
I'd start with those 2 items and be sure to check your steering damper
if that doesn't give you the desired affect I'd look at end links and sway bar bushings, I replaced them at 180k miles on my 01' and could not believe the difference they made, especially in the thunking noise level,
good luck
'Rock Solid' Ram Truck Steering !
I'd start with those 2 items and be sure to check your steering damper
if that doesn't give you the desired affect I'd look at end links and sway bar bushings, I replaced them at 180k miles on my 01' and could not believe the difference they made, especially in the thunking noise level,
good luck
I did the DSS along with the 3rd gen adjustable track bar. Things were a bit more complex for my application due to my Boss V snowplow mount, but that affected the plow mount, not the DSS or trackbar. I had to make an entirely new and different frame support for the driver's side of the snowplow mount.
The DSS I received was very poorly made and did not even come close to fitting. I had to cut it apart and weld in a spacer plate to get it to fit the steering box. The bearing mounting plate was way too low and off-center. The proper thing to do would have been to return it, but aside from the additional shipping expense, I did not have the time to wait for a different one and there was no guarantee the next one would be any better.
Once mounted, there was some improvement from the two devices, but the rest of the front suspension is so shot, along with the tires, it still feels like I have square front tires. It is a miserable truck to drive.
The 3rd gen trackbar is very expensive and I am not impressed with the amount of flex in the frame bracket and will be gusseting and welding it solid. It makes little difference whether the slop comes from a bad ball joint on the end of the stock trackbar, bad bushings in other designs, or flex in the bracket. Slop is slop.
Bottom line: Both items cost far too much for what they are and do, but they also offer the best practical solution to parts of a very bad problem. By themselves, they won't cure the dodge design, but they help a little. Dodge engineers are clearly some of the worst in the world.
In all fairness, the beancounters probably had more to say about the cheap and crappy fake dana 60 than the engineers, but the engineers and marketing yuppies are to blame for the stupid coil link suspension (very light duty) on a heavy, heavy-duty truck. Coil-link suspension is 1/2 ton, sport truck, and SUV stuff and has NO place on a heavy-duty truck.
The DSS I received was very poorly made and did not even come close to fitting. I had to cut it apart and weld in a spacer plate to get it to fit the steering box. The bearing mounting plate was way too low and off-center. The proper thing to do would have been to return it, but aside from the additional shipping expense, I did not have the time to wait for a different one and there was no guarantee the next one would be any better.
Once mounted, there was some improvement from the two devices, but the rest of the front suspension is so shot, along with the tires, it still feels like I have square front tires. It is a miserable truck to drive.
The 3rd gen trackbar is very expensive and I am not impressed with the amount of flex in the frame bracket and will be gusseting and welding it solid. It makes little difference whether the slop comes from a bad ball joint on the end of the stock trackbar, bad bushings in other designs, or flex in the bracket. Slop is slop.
Bottom line: Both items cost far too much for what they are and do, but they also offer the best practical solution to parts of a very bad problem. By themselves, they won't cure the dodge design, but they help a little. Dodge engineers are clearly some of the worst in the world.
In all fairness, the beancounters probably had more to say about the cheap and crappy fake dana 60 than the engineers, but the engineers and marketing yuppies are to blame for the stupid coil link suspension (very light duty) on a heavy, heavy-duty truck. Coil-link suspension is 1/2 ton, sport truck, and SUV stuff and has NO place on a heavy-duty truck.
It seems everyone 2nd gen has slightly different problems in the front end, so what works for some, may not work for others. I did the dss and the 3rd gen track bar conversion. Both helped, but neither solved all issues. Next on the list for me is a steering box.
There is a million different combinations and replacement parts to fix these things so your just going to have to start making decisions on what you think will work best for you. I dont recommend replacing much of anything with stock parts or you will end up in the same position in 30k miles or less. Bite the bullet and start upgrading.
All the front end stuff gets expensive but its something that has to be done to get the steering on these things to work right. I agree: poor design, but its still cheaper to upgrade all of it, than buy a new pickup.
There is a million different combinations and replacement parts to fix these things so your just going to have to start making decisions on what you think will work best for you. I dont recommend replacing much of anything with stock parts or you will end up in the same position in 30k miles or less. Bite the bullet and start upgrading.
All the front end stuff gets expensive but its something that has to be done to get the steering on these things to work right. I agree: poor design, but its still cheaper to upgrade all of it, than buy a new pickup.
I agree, I've had several 2nd gens and the issues are a little different on each of them. I'd start with
'Rock Solid' Ram Truck Steering !
they're about $50 or $60 and a good place to start, install is not too difficult, might take a couple of weeks to get
with it being the cheapest fix at least then you can eliminate most of the steering column issues
keep us posted as you work on your steering
My truck steers way better than I ever thought possible and I am not even running a steering stabilizer (shock). Here is what I have done.
Reworked ball joint on track bar with lindstad alignment kit at about 60K miles, still going strong and way cheaper than other fixes.
Added the DSS, wow this really works. But if you have other problems it is not going to cover for them. If everything else is good the effect is very noticable. I wished I had thought of this myself.
Replaced the stock 96 steering setup with the 2000 configuration (T vs Y, or inverted Y or something like that) using all Moog problem solver parts from Rockauto (cheap) . The tie rod ends, tie rods, the works. At first these parts were so tight they didn't want to let my steering return to center but now,10k miles later, they work perfect. As of yet I have not felt the need to add the steering shock.
I run the correct air pressure in my front tires, don't underestimate the effect this can have. Get the load inflation charts from the goodyear site, weigh your truck to get the axle weights and try them. I have got several friends to do this and they have all been amazed at the improved comfort level and increased longevity they get by following it.
I have also replaced other front end components like the stabilizer bar and the 4-links but I don't think they made any difference on the steering, which was mainly a wandering issue.
I made my own bushing for the base of the steering column years ago ( same deal as the Rocksolid). It did not really help the wandering but it gave the steering a better feel and go rid of the vague clunking that was driving me nuts. Likewise, I have run Borgeson, flaming river, and the stock shaft and it did not really help the wandering only slightly improved the feel. I am currently running a Borgeson, as the flaming river shaft clunked in the slider joint. Very annoying.
Years ago I replaced the steering box cause the slop caused me to think the shaft was cracked. Of course $350 later I found out that was not the case. Much later the DSS addressed this problem nicely but the box swap made no difference.
I completely disagree with the comment about 4 link suspensions. Have you seen the KORE truck? How about the newer style Super Duty suspension which is basically a four link, minus two links so the castor angle will vary.
Basically, if your truck wanders you need to identify and correct each area where you can identify slop. Have a buddy turn it back and forth while you are under the truck checking things out. If all of that doesn't work check your castor angle. Mine is OK but it is at the end of adjustment. If you installed a leveling kit to the front of your truck you may not be able to get the setting you need anymore with your stock links.
These trucks can steer very nicely. Good luck.
Scott
Reworked ball joint on track bar with lindstad alignment kit at about 60K miles, still going strong and way cheaper than other fixes.
Added the DSS, wow this really works. But if you have other problems it is not going to cover for them. If everything else is good the effect is very noticable. I wished I had thought of this myself.
Replaced the stock 96 steering setup with the 2000 configuration (T vs Y, or inverted Y or something like that) using all Moog problem solver parts from Rockauto (cheap) . The tie rod ends, tie rods, the works. At first these parts were so tight they didn't want to let my steering return to center but now,10k miles later, they work perfect. As of yet I have not felt the need to add the steering shock.
I run the correct air pressure in my front tires, don't underestimate the effect this can have. Get the load inflation charts from the goodyear site, weigh your truck to get the axle weights and try them. I have got several friends to do this and they have all been amazed at the improved comfort level and increased longevity they get by following it.
I have also replaced other front end components like the stabilizer bar and the 4-links but I don't think they made any difference on the steering, which was mainly a wandering issue.
I made my own bushing for the base of the steering column years ago ( same deal as the Rocksolid). It did not really help the wandering but it gave the steering a better feel and go rid of the vague clunking that was driving me nuts. Likewise, I have run Borgeson, flaming river, and the stock shaft and it did not really help the wandering only slightly improved the feel. I am currently running a Borgeson, as the flaming river shaft clunked in the slider joint. Very annoying.
Years ago I replaced the steering box cause the slop caused me to think the shaft was cracked. Of course $350 later I found out that was not the case. Much later the DSS addressed this problem nicely but the box swap made no difference.
I completely disagree with the comment about 4 link suspensions. Have you seen the KORE truck? How about the newer style Super Duty suspension which is basically a four link, minus two links so the castor angle will vary.
Basically, if your truck wanders you need to identify and correct each area where you can identify slop. Have a buddy turn it back and forth while you are under the truck checking things out. If all of that doesn't work check your castor angle. Mine is OK but it is at the end of adjustment. If you installed a leveling kit to the front of your truck you may not be able to get the setting you need anymore with your stock links.
These trucks can steer very nicely. Good luck.
Scott
Scott, We may never agree that a kore truck is anything like a work truck, or that the parts for the frontend, even from Rockauto, are anything approaching "cheap" (you won't have much left over from a $1000 bill).
I hear this apples to oranges arguments from fans of coil-link suspension all the time: "Look at the coil link suspension on KORE trucks". Yeah, so? What do I care about a desert race truck suspension on a load-carrying truck? Why would I even want it? Those are completely different missions and applications.
You guys are completely missing the point about the HUGE difference between offroad racing/sport suspension and "work truck" suspension. Our motocross bikes are made to take a tremendous beating and launch and land huge jumps, too, but they are worthless for carrying heavy loads. They cannot even carry two people. Like a kore truck/sport truck, they rely on compliant (soft), long-travel suspension which is a far cry from a heavy load carrying suspension.
But, like you did, I am gradually buying the Moog pieces to change my '96 to the T style steering. I have gotten conflicting info on which tierod end I need to fit the '96 pitman arm though. Do you have the part number you used on your's? Was it the '96 or '00 end you used?
I hear this apples to oranges arguments from fans of coil-link suspension all the time: "Look at the coil link suspension on KORE trucks". Yeah, so? What do I care about a desert race truck suspension on a load-carrying truck? Why would I even want it? Those are completely different missions and applications.
You guys are completely missing the point about the HUGE difference between offroad racing/sport suspension and "work truck" suspension. Our motocross bikes are made to take a tremendous beating and launch and land huge jumps, too, but they are worthless for carrying heavy loads. They cannot even carry two people. Like a kore truck/sport truck, they rely on compliant (soft), long-travel suspension which is a far cry from a heavy load carrying suspension.
But, like you did, I am gradually buying the Moog pieces to change my '96 to the T style steering. I have gotten conflicting info on which tierod end I need to fit the '96 pitman arm though. Do you have the part number you used on your's? Was it the '96 or '00 end you used?
I thought we were talking about steering not carrying loads? Anyway here are the part numbers of the components I got from Rockauto for my 96.
Parts:
MOOG Part #ES2012S
MOOG Part #DS1456
MOOG Part #DS1459
MOOG Part #ES3496
MOOG Part #ES3497
MOOG Part #ES3498S
The pitman is the original 96, never been changed.
The total bill was about $350 dollars including shipping (don't forget the discount codes usually posted by Holeshot). I thought that was very CHEAP as a couple of these would have cost me that much locally. If you want a stabilizer shock you will have to do some fab work.
Regards,
Scott
Parts:
MOOG Part #ES2012S
MOOG Part #DS1456
MOOG Part #DS1459
MOOG Part #ES3496
MOOG Part #ES3497
MOOG Part #ES3498S
The pitman is the original 96, never been changed.
The total bill was about $350 dollars including shipping (don't forget the discount codes usually posted by Holeshot). I thought that was very CHEAP as a couple of these would have cost me that much locally. If you want a stabilizer shock you will have to do some fab work.
Regards,
Scott
I was responding to: "I completely disagree with the comment about 4 link suspensions. Have you seen the KORE truck?"
We all know it is useless to speak of "steering" and "suspension" as two different things when discussing the frontends of these dodges. You cannot change or have problems with one without affecting the other.
I appreciate those part numbers. Those are what I have.
Realistically, you need to figure in the price of a trackbar and balljoints if you are doing the frontend. The trackbar is the first thing to go belly up. $150 stock replacement.
In my case, a $350 adjustable 3rd gen after going through 2 NAPA lifetime warranty trackbars in 2 years. Another $250 for balljoints, and we haven't even gotten into outer u-joints (you DO replace those when you are that far into an axle, don't you?), another $90. A DSS is another $125. Shocks, decent ones, are about $100 to $125 apiece. God have mercy on you if your unit-hub bearings are getting worn... Hundreds more $$...
Realistically figure a minimum of well over $2000 trying to fix the dodge frontend.
Of course, by the time you do that, your $250 apiece front tires are also shot ...
frontend leveling spacers... steering damper... sway bar end links... control arms or at least bushings... those are all "extra".
The number of parts and dollars keeps right on piling up... $3000... $4000
Now get REALLY fed up and opt for a Dynatrac kit for another $2500...
All that money, and you have not even moved past the front axle...
If you buy a 2nd gen, you had better be prepared to spend LOTS of money on the steering and front suspension!
Once you are all done, you STILL have wimpy balljoints that will require future replacement and a suspicious eye, but it WILL be a whole lot better than Ma Mopar pawned off on you.
Two simple, ultra-reliable leaf springs and a REAL kingpin/lockouts Dana 60 start looking MIGHTY nice!
We all know it is useless to speak of "steering" and "suspension" as two different things when discussing the frontends of these dodges. You cannot change or have problems with one without affecting the other.
I appreciate those part numbers. Those are what I have.
Realistically, you need to figure in the price of a trackbar and balljoints if you are doing the frontend. The trackbar is the first thing to go belly up. $150 stock replacement.
In my case, a $350 adjustable 3rd gen after going through 2 NAPA lifetime warranty trackbars in 2 years. Another $250 for balljoints, and we haven't even gotten into outer u-joints (you DO replace those when you are that far into an axle, don't you?), another $90. A DSS is another $125. Shocks, decent ones, are about $100 to $125 apiece. God have mercy on you if your unit-hub bearings are getting worn... Hundreds more $$...
Realistically figure a minimum of well over $2000 trying to fix the dodge frontend.
Of course, by the time you do that, your $250 apiece front tires are also shot ...
frontend leveling spacers... steering damper... sway bar end links... control arms or at least bushings... those are all "extra".
The number of parts and dollars keeps right on piling up... $3000... $4000
Now get REALLY fed up and opt for a Dynatrac kit for another $2500...
All that money, and you have not even moved past the front axle...
If you buy a 2nd gen, you had better be prepared to spend LOTS of money on the steering and front suspension!
Once you are all done, you STILL have wimpy balljoints that will require future replacement and a suspicious eye, but it WILL be a whole lot better than Ma Mopar pawned off on you.
Two simple, ultra-reliable leaf springs and a REAL kingpin/lockouts Dana 60 start looking MIGHTY nice!
SRath, You are entitled to your opinion.
I have a total of $60 invested in my track bar and it has been in the truck for 240k miles and it is still tight. So I guess I am not realistic.
Unit hub bearing were replaced at about 250k, b4 they failed. They were not cheap but they did last me awhile.
I have no need for the dynatrac I have not had any trouble other than a failed seal at about 60k.
My ball joints are the originals and only one lower has a small amount of play.
Steering while going down a smooth road is much more independent of the suspension than it is while going down a rough road. So I guess I am the only one who is not aware it is useless to speak of one without the other.
I agree that way back in the mid 90's Dodge dropped the ball on a lot of things when it came to design and people like you and I had to pick up the bills and do a lot of thinking to make the trucks better. I also think it's possible you made a poor selection of vehicles based on what you intended to do with it. But that's just my opinion.
Good luck,
Scott
I have a total of $60 invested in my track bar and it has been in the truck for 240k miles and it is still tight. So I guess I am not realistic.
Unit hub bearing were replaced at about 250k, b4 they failed. They were not cheap but they did last me awhile.
I have no need for the dynatrac I have not had any trouble other than a failed seal at about 60k.
My ball joints are the originals and only one lower has a small amount of play.
Steering while going down a smooth road is much more independent of the suspension than it is while going down a rough road. So I guess I am the only one who is not aware it is useless to speak of one without the other.
I agree that way back in the mid 90's Dodge dropped the ball on a lot of things when it came to design and people like you and I had to pick up the bills and do a lot of thinking to make the trucks better. I also think it's possible you made a poor selection of vehicles based on what you intended to do with it. But that's just my opinion.
Good luck,
Scott
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
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Renew
Subscribe
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Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
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Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
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