Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) OttoMind camplate

[velsberry]

I bought my '97 CTD AT about 3 months ago. It came with a Banks Stinger kit and a BD-Pressure Lok on the transmission. I have been told (by Piers) that the Ottomind camplate is comparable to a TST #6 or #8 plate. I would like to get to about 300 - 350 hp for pulling a 12. 5K 5th wheel. I have been told that I should install a #10 plate (along with injectors and a HX35/40 turbo). It would appear from the camplate selection guide on the Piers website, that a #10 would offer less hp/tq than a #6. Someone please relieve my ignorance.

 

[ndurbin]

A #10 plate is the most common plate recommend for towing out there. It offers alil better EGT control versus a bigger plate.



Nathan

 

[JGheen]

It would appear from the camplate selection guide on the Piers website, that a #10 would offer less hp/tq than a #6. :

You can get all the HP you want out of a #10 depending on where it is set at, what injectors your running, turbo, etc. Some people are running almost 700 HP with a #10. The power numbers that are advertised for the #10 are most likely numbers from a stock set-up and the #10 was the only thing aftermarket added. It's just all about where you set the plate and what else you run in combination with the plate.

 

[NHouse]

My 97 has the banks stinger plus, I don't really like the fuel curve of the ottomind, I just picked up a #10 a couple days ago that I'll be putting in soon. From what I've read, the #10 will be much better, I'm not sure about the auto trans though... ...

 

[DSiemens]

You are right when comparing a 6 plate to a 10 all things being equal. When you install 370 injectors you are adding a whole bunch more fuel and EGTs rise. Sliding the plate forward also increases EGTs and POWER. The 10 plate is very versatile. It can be slid either forward or back and it usually does not require a governor lever adjustment. A hybrid turbo is a very good idea. Towing places demands on EGT management that running mt doesn't. Did Piers mention changing the exhaust housing? Add a 3K GSK to complete the package and have your timing advanced.



Dan

 

[Howard Durand]

I have the Banks Power Pak in my 94 and their plate served my purpose quite well for several years. The egt would get up there if I found myself in the wrong gear but it was manageable.

Last year I put in a #5 plate that really goes gangbusters but so does the egt.

It is almost unmanageable.

Yesterday I put in a #10 and really like the throttle response right from a standstill but it begins to de-fuel at around 1/2 throttle and the last 1/3 third of the throttle gives basically no response. When I installed it, I put the governor arm right down at the tip and the plate is in stock position.

One thing though, I don't get over 1200* egt towing my 7000# trailer.



What should be done with this setup to expand the throttle range?

 

[velsberry]

Thanks for the replies. I can pick up a used HX35 turbo at a good price. Would the hybrid 35/40 offer that much more?

 

[DSiemens]

Piers modified turbo flows. It spools up faster than the stock hx-35 and there is a reduction in EGT.



Dan

 

[DSiemens]

Different profile on a 5 to a 10 plate. I went from a 6 to a 10. Truck responded like a mild mannered gentleman. Slid the plate ahead 40 thou, better but needed more so slid an additional 30 thou. That woke it up, in fact, backed the 10 plate a good 10 thou back for some added safety while towing. With the 3k GSK, you are not defueling but the profile of the 10 plate makes the motor respond as you describe. Slide the plate forward. It will wake the Cummins up.



Dan

 

[Howard Durand]

DSiemens



Thanks for the post, I was seriously considering putting the #5 back in.



The #10 plate is in the stock position now. Based on your experience, If I slide it forward about 0. 060" it should perform better and still be able to tow without having one eye glued to the egt gauge .



One thing to consider is the different pumps in our trucks. Mine is a little old 160 while yours is considerably larger. I guess I can hope that my gain in performance will be proportional to yours. Someone reminded me that, in the TST chart for their plates, the #10 is not recommended for the 94. In fact the #6 & #5 are the only ones that are, with the #5 requiring auto transmission upgrade.



With the Banks Twin Ram intake, getting the AFC housing off is a real pain so I don't want to have to do this too many times.

It will be a little easier the next time though, I replaced the break-off screw and the other slotted screw on the engine side with socket head screws that I can get at with a long, wobble tip allen wrench.

After I remove the fuel shutoff solenoid and disconnect a couple of hoses, the mounting bracket can be pulled out far enough that I can get the housing out pretty easy without removing any intake parts.

 

[JGheen]

DSiemens



With the Banks Twin Ram intake, getting the AFC housing off is a real pain so I don't want to have to do this too many times.

.

Why do you have an issue getting the AFC off with that intake? I run the twin ram myself and can make a plate adjustment in 5 minutes. 2 mintues to take the AFC off, 1 mintue to adjust the plate and 2 minutes to put the AFC back on. I believe it is just as easy, if not easier than doing it with the stock single ram intake. Now that I think about it, I have never really had to remove the twin ram at all to do any kind of adjustments, even my 3K GSK install.

Not braggin' over this or anything just wondering why some people have so much trouble making adjustments with it.

 

[Jerred]

This is in response to many of the above posts. I started with the Banks plate as well and had a difficult time adjusting the arm correctly, and with EGT's. You can put any plate in any pump, you'll just have to adjust the throttle arm and timing to match how you're running (if you want to run advanced timing, you'll need more power or the engine will sound like it's missing, too lean). The charts you guys are talking about have numbers for a plate installation alone, no other mods, so if you're bombing with other stuff, those numbers are a wash. You'll be well above them. I have a #10 plate now and it's perfect. When I put it in, with 16deg timing, it knocked a little (not enough fuel for that much advance) so I slid it forward a skoosh and it runs great. For any of the aftermarket plates, they're pretty much all flat at the top and therefore, at WOT, they'll pretty much all go to max fuel. The bottom part of the plate will define the driving manners at low speeds, rpm and boost. The #10 is may favorite for around town and getting on it. I've tried the Banks Ottomind, #8, #10 and one that I ground down to a #0 profile. Love the #10, forget the rest!! Want more power, slide it forward. I have never removed the intake to get to the plate, I have the twin intake as well. It takes me about 10 min to do the job. It's tight, but can be done without removing the shutoff solenoid and just lifting the pump afc housing out of the way. Just don't forget to replace the dip stick afterwards!! Easy cheesy!!

 

[Howard Durand]

With experience comes ease of repetition.



I installed the Banks plate when I went to the Power Pak. That was pretty easy, just followed instructions.

Next I did the Twin Ram intake and installed a different plate. There again I followed instructions and all went fine until I discovered one of the stainless washers that was supposed to go under the long bolts was missing.

Panic told me that it had to be in one of the cylinders and a magnet would be of no help. In desperation, I crawled under the truck and used the vacuum cleaner to blow air everywhere I could think of. Low and behold, it fell out onto the floor.



My third plate was the TST #5 and that time I removed the Twin Ram to get at the AFC.



The fourth plate is the TST #10. I removed the fuel shutoff solenoid so I could move the bracket out further which made getting the AFC out easier.

Did the same thing today for the plate adjustment.

Moved it forward about 0. 030"



I'll probably continue to do it that way and I will never be able to get it done in 10 minutes. It takes me longer than that just to find the tools and ten times longer to retrieve them from wherever it is they fall when I drop them. Not to mention all of the bolts and washers that run and hide.



I was pretty good at what I did when I worked for a living but now I am retired and the truck is a hobby.

If I wasn't working on the truck I would have to be helping the wife dig up the flower beds or some other such chore.

I prefer grease to mud any day and I can make the job last as long as I can look busy.

 

[DSiemens]

Howard, how's the truck drive with the slid plate? There is a certain amount of satisfaction in pulling your own wrenches. Lots of guys are quicker wrench turners than I, but not many are more thorough. Enjoy retirement and grease under the fingernail is better than dirt.



Dan

 

[Howard Durand]

Dan,



It drives real nice and there is much more room to move the plate so I am confident it can be tuned to get what I need. This is the best I have had yet for getting the truck and trailer started. It doesn't have the lag that seemed to be common with the other plates. I didn't change the star wheel any from where it was before.



I really enjoy working on the truck and, like you, I take my time. My neighbors probably think the Dodge is a lemon because I am always under the hood or under the truck.

 

[Jerred]

Same here, when I did my trany swap from auto to manual, the truck sat in the driveway on jacks for a month while I got the parts together. My neighbors had a pool behind my back for whether or not it would ever run again!



If you do the plate adjustment without removing the intake, a trick I learned (because I adjust it quite frequently) is to just loosen the third bolt on the backside of the pump that holds the shutoff solenoid bracket to pump and then remove the four bolts for the AFC housing. You can just hold the shutoff solenoid out of the way while removing the AFC housing. Just don't forget to re-connect the manifold pressure line on the back of the housing (if your truck has one). I can tell you that the truck will run with it disconnected, but you'll have a little exhaust in the engine compartment (I couldn't figure out where it was coming from!!) and you'll make a lot more smoke!!



Also, anytime you adjust something fuel related (new delivery valves, timing, fuel plate, injectors), I swear the truck needs a couple hundred miles to settle in to the new fueling setup. Call me crazy, but it seems the ole' CTD has a mind of her own. If you don't like how it drives immediately after making an adjustment, give it a few trips to and from work.

 

[JohnE]

Dan,

... I really enjoy working on the truck and, like you, I take my time. My neighbors probably think the Dodge is a lemon because I am always under the hood or under the truck.

I've had a similar comment from neighbors. "Either you like working on the truck or you have to work on that Dodge. " Chevy country around here.



Have you checked for full throttle application? Many have to shim the cable between the foot and pump linkage to get full throttle application due to stretch.



Piers recommends the #10 as an auto towing plate not for the hp gains, but the torque increase in stock position. Of course, plate position, governor lever adjustment, and governor springs will really make it rock.



I run a #4 plate which fuel harder and longer than a #10, but take some tuning of the governor lever to get the low rpm lag out.