Ouch!

[nhincher]

Hope this guy learned something!



www.michiganjeepers.com/forums/show...3433/page/0/view/collapsed/sb/5/o/all/fpart/1





Scroll down for the pics.

 

[parcher]

Those Jeeps on that trailer must have had a VERY high center of gravity. The Jeeps are lifted and the deck of the trailer is ABOVE the wheels by a lot.

 

[mgonske]

:{ :{ :{ :{



Oh, man, I have nightmares about this sort of thing!



The first time I ever trailered my Samurai behind my Toyota pickup, oh, so long ago, coming down a long grade just North of St George, Utah, I was treated to alternating full-broadside images of the Samurai on trailer first in the right mirror, then the left, right, etc. . I kept the power on and manually applied the trailer brakes until I got down to the level part, then cleaned my shorts and adjusted the load on the trailer. I learned a lot about weight distribution on that first outing with the flatbed.



I sure hope other newbies have a chance to learn from someone else's mistakes, and not have to learn this one first-hand.

 

[y-knot]

Actually they were morons, and just waiting for an accident to happen. This accident wasn't the result of improper loading, high center of gravity, or anything else mechanical. This was stupidity at it's best. You have a couple of guys that are very obviously mechanically inclined, they have to be, there jeeps were highly modified and looked very nice. The pull vehicle was newer, and in good shape, though alittle under powered and overloaded. The trailer was a tri-axle and also a deck over, which was about the only kind they could use given the very wide track of the modified Jeeps. What done this guy's in was not having a good understanding of what is needed to tow safely. The trailer was equipped with electric brakes , but they never hooked them up. This was the first strike against them. They were also pulling a heavy trailer (for a open trailer) of about 2500lbs, 2 jeeps at about 4500lbs each, so they had approximately 11,500lbs, being towed by a SRW truck, strike two. The guys were most likely traveling at too high of a rate of speed, on a secondary road that is wet. The worst , absolutely worst thing anyone can do when your trailer starts to wiggle (wagging it's tail) IS APPLY THE TOWING VEHICLES BRAKES. Please if you do not remember a danm thing about this accident, don't forget this. When descending a hill (and it does not have to be a huge one) the trailer is trying to push the towing vehicle, In this case a 11,500lb trailer was pushing a 5000lb truck. You can insert your truck/trailer into this same scenario. The trailer is wagging, and the further down the hill he goes the more it wages, as soon as the truck starts to apply the service brakes, the trailer quickly over comes the grip of the tires, the trailer now pushes the truck sideways and the rig jackknifes. This driver could have gotten out of this mess, with just alittle common sense, first thing he should have done was to slow down, especially before cresting the hill. If there would have been trailer brakes, you could reach down and apply ONLY the trailer brakes, by using the manual lever. This manual application of the trailer brakes, slows the trailer, which most of the time will straighten out the trailer. Under some extreme cases, you might have to apply the trailer brakes, and at the same time apply throttle to the tow vehicle. This guy could have applied throttle, but buy being a secondary road, wet, overloaded it wold not have helped, most likely. This accident most likely started from the trailer axle catching or going off the edge of the road, and then spiraled out of control from the correction, and use of service brakes. If you catch the edge, don't over react, apply power and slowly re-enter your lane, try and avoid any sudden movements. Also when you mount your electric brake controller, mount it were it is accessible, easy to reach and operate. This should not be a beauty issue, it will do you know good, if you can not get to it, quickly.

 

[bmoeller]

That's what you get for not having a gooseneck trailer or a dually with a load like that.

 

[MCharlebois]

common sense

y not is right-i know some very intellegent people with no common sense-lets see-your towing your 8 to 10k forklift with a small flatbed f450?--crested the hill at ohhh 50 --you know the ones that say check your brakes bout 2 miles long 7-8% grade----the smoke rolling off the brakes was unbelievable --a T at the bottom-good thing no one was coming because he could not stop!!! he did the same thing with 5 of us in his f150 loaded trailer behind -4 way at the bottom of hill-swung her left at the bottom everybody was praying im sure::{ :{

 

[parcher]

Y-not, A friend of mine has a highly modified Cherokee. He tows it on a much lower trailer. He reinforced the fenders on the trailer so he can drive over them and back down onto the deck. I agree with everyting else you said but that trailer was not the ONLY choice to tow those vehicles.

 

[y-knot]

You are absolutely right, there are other choices out there, and the one you mentioned was one of them. It is a good ideal to keep your load as low as possible, and the modification made to allow that on the fore mentioned trailer were great. What I was thinking when I wrote about the above article, was store bought, or readily available trailers. Open trailers are pretty much limited to 6'-10" between the fenders. After that you would have to go to a deck over model. There is nothing wrong with deck over trailers, just pulling this load, and with that much weight, I would have suggested a Gooseneck. But there were multiple mistakes made, and they all added up to a huge wreck, with a equally huge loss of property. They were very lucky that no one was injured or killed. Thanks for posting this, maybe someone out there will read this and realize something they might have been doing wrong.

 

[nhincher]

It was definitely a combination of factors, over loaded, wet road, undersized tow rig. I can just see the driver turning to his passenger 10 seconds before the accident bragging about how much his new chevy can tow...



It is surprising some of the responses from the guys involved, as if they did nothing wrong and it was a freak accident



I pull my F-150 on my standard 18ft car hauler (7ft between the fenders) the 38s barely squeeze through. if it didn't I would build some drive on fenders. In a couple of years I plan on looking into a gooseneck.



I know a gooseneck is the way to go for that kind of load but why is that? I would think that with the tongue weight over the rear axle instead of behind it, the trailer would have less directional control over the truck (ie less moment arm around the front tires) plus it would not unload the front tires like a bumper pull does. am I on the right track?

 

[y-knot]

Yes the Tag (bumper) trailer is usually limited to 1000 lbs of tongue weight, this limit isn't because the truck can not handle the load, it's because the hitch has a weight rating (class IV) and the negative effects of tag hauling. The Class IV rating on most hitch's is 5,000lbs, 1,000lbs tongue weight, and 10,000lbs with a load equalizer hitch. On our trucks the receiver hitch is located about 4 feet behind the axle center line. This distance acts as leverage, it unloads the front (takes weight off the front tires), and serves to decrease lateral stability (amplifies the trailers natural tendency to push the truck side ways). While the weight equalizer hitch can help increase load, if set-up improperly, it can take to much weight off the rear tires and and lead to increased loss of stability.

The gooseneck or 5th wheel hitch puts the weight over the rear axle, most mount 8" in front on it's centerline. The trailer weight is now moved forward, and has no leverage as in the tag mount. The weight is now carried by the rear axle, and the front axle see no un-loading. Stability and control are both increased as the ability for the trailer to influence the tow vehicles ride and body roll are reduced. When maneuvering, the trailers brake point has been moved forward, which allows for much tighter turning radius. The most noteworthy benefit of this type hitch, is the increased stability, and increased weight rating. There are many factors that determine how a trailer will tow. The size wheel base and weight of the towing vehicle, the type hitch, length of tongue, length and weight of trailer, load distribution and center of gravity,all contribute to the tow quality.

 

[CFAR]

Always follow manufacturers suggested ratings.



HITCH RATINGS -- Hitches are rated by the manufacturer according to the maximum amount of weight they are engineered to handle. Class I travel trailer hitches are rated for towing as much as 2,000 pounds. Class II units are for loads up to 3,500 pounds. Class III has a rating of 7,500 pounds, and Class IV is for loads of up to 10,000 pounds. Class V hitches are designed for towing loads up to 14,000 pounds. These ratings based on class category may vary depending on the manufacturer. Fifth-wheel ratings range to 25,000 pounds. The weight rating refers to the total weight of the trailer/fifth-wheel, with freshwater tank full, propane tanks full, all supplies on-board and ready to travel.

Some of the above hitches will require a weight-distributing hitch(see below) to meet the above ratings.



HITCH WEIGHT -- The amount of weight imposed on the hitch when the trailer/fifth-wheel is coupled. Sometimes referred to as conventional trailer "tongue weight. " Hitch weight for a travel trailer can be 10-15 percent of overall weight; fifth-wheel hitch weight is usually 18 to 20 percent of the overall weight.



WEIGHT-DISTRIBUTING HITCH -- Also known as an "equalizing" hitch, this category includes hitch systems that utilize spring bars that can be placed under tension to distribute a portion of the trailer's hitch weight to the tow vehicle's front axle and the trailer's axles.



By the way if he had a Semi Tractor, and the same trailer started to sway, under the same conditions, and he hit the brakes, guess what?



SAME THING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED!!!

 

[ddutil]

' think they were using a pintle hook, and I suspect the tongue weight was very low... then the pintle started to dance.



When the tongue weight is high, then the pintle will set either at right or at left.



I experienced it with an unloaded trailer (2k#). It was just annoying. The trailer had weighted 15k#, I would not be here to tell the story.



Darwin was probably right, after all. There's the smarts, the idiots and the 'just lucky' ones.



I promised myself to stay away from pintles.



I will get a brake controller, and join the smarts.



Dan

 

[y-knot]

Pintle hitches were designed for high mobility, where rough terrain is encountered. They offer the truck and trailer extra movement not available with a ball hitch. The pintle is not locked in over the top like the ball, instead there is a thick rugged hoop, that is attached to another hoop. This one is mounted 90 degree from the trailers, and has a feature to allow it to open. Also, most pintles will swivel, which allows even more movement and helps control binding. This type hitch works great in the environment it was designed to function in, I think the military were the first to use such a hitch. They obviously needed some way to haul there trailers full of food,water,ammo,ect. This pintle hitch fit the bill, and is still in use to this day. In the private sector, the pintle is not used much. Businesses that haul heavy construction equipment, or have a need to haul heavy items to off-road areas, like oil Fields are the main users.

 

[Turbo Tim 1]

Pintles should be used when the weight of the tow vehicle is equal to or heavier than the towed vehicle. They were twice the weight as the tow vehicle. People just like to think that all they need is the power to make it move. I saw a mid 80's Ferd Bronco on it's roof along with about a 30+ footer tag-along. Probably 75% or better of the trailering accidents I've seen are from too small of a tow vehicle. I use a 20 foot equipment trailer that my friend has that weighs 3000 lbs and if I don't use the torsion bars with it on my dually it will make the truck bounce when unloaded. Put the torsion bars and all is smooth. At the very minimum these guys should've had a weight distribution hitch and torsion bars and the freakin brakes hooked up. Just pure retardedness.

 

[swampinboy]

I agree with everything above, but my 2c worth,



GOOSE OR 5TH IS A WHOLE LOT CHEAPER THAN A COUPLE BUILT D60 AXLES NOT TO MENTION THE REST OF THE PARTS---



WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO CHAINS AND BINDERS??? NOT THAT IT WOULD HAVE HELPED IN THIS SITUATION BUT COME ON, 4000# ON A COUPLE OF NYLON (CUT EASY) STRAPS???



44 BOGGERS, GLASS BODYS, 4. 56 LOCKERS- THOUSANDS,

ON THE SIDE OF ROAD UPOVER- PRICELESS.



sorry guys, but could have been my family headed at them and caught in the mess.



ITS EASIER TO DO IT RIGHT THAN TO TRY TO EXPLAIN TO SOMEONE WHY YOU DIDNT.



SEE YA, swampin.

 

[Mtngoat]

I've towed my Jeep many times to Moab, New Mexico, Colorado, etc behind a motorhome, a half ton, 3/4 ton and now my one ton. These pictures bring it home you need to have the right equipment and to pay attention to what you are doing. I have a LOT of sweat, blood, and money in my Jeep and to see it lying on the road like that would be about all I could stand. Still, I feel for the guys to see their pride and joys all wadded up like that. :{



Robin

 

[y-knot]

I know of a fellow that worked for over a year on a super sweet sand rail, simply beatiful. The first outing to get it shock down, he barrowed a freinds open trailer, it was a 18' trailer that was home made and looked the part. But to save a buck, he barrowed it and straped his 40,000 dollar rail down and headed out. I still don't know if something broke on the trialer or if they just lost it, but the end result was a total lost to the trailer and rail. Of coarse no insurance covers the rail. And because the trailer was homemade, and not properly built, it was not covered eithere.

 

[Mtngoat]

Its like that old saying, you play, you pay. I guess if you dont play the right way, you pay out a lot more!



Robin

 

[nhincher]

Originally posted by swampinboy



WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO CHAINS AND BINDERS??? NOT THAT IT WOULD HAVE HELPED IN THIS SITUATION BUT COME ON, 4000# ON A COUPLE OF NYLON (CUT EASY) STRAPS???

[/B]

I agree, (though I use 4 10K straps to hold my bronco down). I disagree with the guy that the jeeps fared better coming off the trailer. Had they stayed put the whole contraption would have just slid down the road on it's side (rollbars taking the brunt of it). the tow rig certainly would have been better off had the jeeps stayed on the trailer.

 

[MCummings]

I'm just gonna post a few quotes from over there.



One particular thing I liked about their Bulletin board was the sensoring, instead of $#!@, or [censored], they use something else. Here is an example,, taken straight from their board,,



"it got worse and worse and then the [ I have a limited vocabulary ] hit the fan "



Here's some more quotes,,

"too many axles on a short trailer with too much weight on the beavertail"



"The tow rig was a 2500HD with the 6. 0L. Was it too much for the tow rating, probably, but there's a member who graduated last year that has a late eighties Dodge with the Cummins and he would tow hay in the fall and he would pull into the weigh stations and weigh in at 34,000lbs and he never had a problem. "



"The straps saved the jeeps by letting them break free. The damage would have been much worse if they were chained"



"As far as the straps saving the Jeeps, who gives a [ I have a limited vocabulary ] about the Jeeps? What about the cars that could have been coming the other direction? It would be much safer for everone on the road if the tow vehicles were at least attached to the tow rig while they are sliding down the road, not just rolling anywhere. I think chains would be safer. "



"The tow rating of the truck didn't play a factor because the same thing could have happened to a semi pulling the same trailer. "



"dude, what ever you are on must be some pretty good stuff. "



"maybe he dropped the doobie and swerved"



-----



That was all the interesting comments I heard.



The Friend of the person who was pulling the trailer seemed to get pretty ticked off whenever they pointed the finger and said,, "You screwed up". I feel he thinks he did nothing wrong, and any driver, with any truck would have done the same thing, but I feel different, the situation was very preventable.



Merrick