Our Gun Rights are being challanged again.

[sdalton]

Dodgeboyz: You accuse me of not reading into what you said?? Read what I said first, maybe a couple of times after you chill out. Read it carefully and not with your own insecurities about your myopic views getting in the way. I could care less who you voted for, whether you are a liberal(Barf) or a conservative. What I said is that you have a limited education about the world around you. What I should have said is that you are ignorant, concerning matters which do not directly effect you own hole in the sand. Which you so happily tout as being the best place in the world for you and your family to happily hide. I might be being a little harsh, but, you started this little war on words. You even said quote: "I got to say this,I know I will be black balled for this but oh well. "

So dont be surprised when people verbally attack you for your "head in the sand" views. Most of the country is tired of views like that. Views like that are what is tearing the moral fabric of our country apart.

If I am wrong in what I say, and people think I am a little touched , or just plain off base, please someone let me know. I am a big boy, I have fought many battles in life and a little criticism might sting it might help me grow.





Dodgeboyz: "What doesnt kill us can only make us stronger. "



Scott

 

[baby.driver]

Bottom Line

Complaining about any of the tyranny is only so much mental exercise.

Better to keep our mouths shut and prepare.

It is fun to vote, I can vote NO on all the bond issues. But to vote for a politician? That is truly a wasted effort.

 

[jandtjil]

I have to share this.

Currently the Mrs and I are in the middle of a Change of Station(PCS), about ten days ago while filing paperwork required to have movers pack us up, I was asked if there were any special items requiring additional attention in the move. I scanned through the list of (special items). Ahh firearms

I wrote it down (yeah I have a couple!)

later when the technician was processing my papers, she came to that section and honestly acted shocked and a little outraged. "How many?", "Do you live in base housing?... , "I need you to list the serial numbers. ", "are they registered?" "of course you know we will not haul ammunition. "

I too am a bit sick of being on the other side of the political correctness. I dearly do respect many of the civilians employed on this installation, most are prior service. Those few who choose a career on a military installation and have a problem with firearms, I do not need!



JJ

 

[KMC]

Dodgeboyz wanted some facts.....

Here's a starter... .



In 1911, Turkey established gun control. Subsequently, from 1915 to 1917, 1. 5-million Armenians, deprived of the means to defend themselves, were rounded up and killed.



In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. Then from 1929 to 1953, approximately 20-millon dissidents were rounded up and killed.



In 1938 Germany did establish gun control. From 1939 to 1945 over 13-million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, mentally ill, union leaders, Catholics and others, unable to fire a shot in protest, were rounded up and killed.



In 1935, China established gun control. Subsequently, between 1948 and 1952, over 20-million dissidents were rounded up and killed.



In 1956, Cambodia enshrined gun control. In just two years (1975-1977) over one million"educated" people were rounded up and killed.



In 1964, Guatemala locked in gun control. From 1964 to 1981, over 100,000 Mayan Indians were rounded up and killed as a result of their inability to defend themselves.



In 1970, Uganda got gun control. Over the next nine years over 300,000 Christians were rounded up and killed.



Over 56-million people have died because of gun control in the last century . . .



Don't think this can happen in America? Wake up.



Alot more gun related facts can be found here:



http://www.2asisters.org/gunfacts/gunfacts.pdf

 

[Champane Flight]

Annie get your gun.

I have a problem with ANY loss of freedom like most here. I also have a problem with guns getting into the hands of kids who have NO education on gun use. I have seen first hand what can and almost can happen in this situation.



Case in point: 17 year old kid with a chip on his shoulder goes and gets Granmas gun from the dresser and pulls in on Stepdad, because he can't go out that night! These are the things that bother me about guns, not whether the gun comes from a gun show! If any laws should be looked at it is gun security and education. I am more worried about the gun owner that doesen't take the time to teach a kid how/when NOT to use a gun, than the one who takes the kid out hunting!



In the case of selfdefense, most times you won't have acess to a gun when you need it. I wear one a lot and can tell you that just the presence of a weapon makes most people a little nervous. But, the chances of some act of violence happening while I am wearing it are very, very slight. Violence usually happens when you least expect it. Not when you are sitting in your easy chair with a 9mm in your lap. It is like death, NO one is really ready for it, it comes and their isn't a $%#@ thing you can do about it.



Guns from gunshows don't kill people, people kill people!!!!!!!!



All this said, I do not think the absence of gun shows will stop anything. I have never bought any weapons from a gunshow and do not usually don't care to attend any. But will defend the right for anyone to go and buy at one. Keep your powder dry folks and don't turn on each other yet.

 

[Wayno]

But if Gran ma did not have a gun in her dresser and all the 17 year old could fine was the keys to Gran mas 1951 Studebaker Champion and drove it thur the house and kills Step dad would it be alright for the federal government to take all of our cars ( and our diesel trucks ) away????????????? And what blame could we put on the 17 year olds Mom. Oh and don't forget about Dad. And what blame could we put on the local government for trying to keep you from disciplining your child????????? People kill people with all sorts of things,not just with guns

 

['956Wheel]

I read and re-read Dodgeboyz posts and did not find any anti-gun refference whatsoever.



I find, quite often a sort of "gangbanger" mentality on the site. UNITED WE STAND, DEVIDED WE FALL. Yes we are all entitled to our opinion but to gang up on one like a pack of bloodthirsty animals is a shame!



Dodge is right and this is proven out, let me show you. 9/11 happened because we are distracted by what is of less concern than our countries well being. We will save the whale, the rainforrest, and any other frivolous crap while the Yasser's and O'sama's blow us to bits! Most are still saying "someday suicide missions will be on our soil". WAKE UP CALL! THEY ARE HERE!



So you go on and attack your brother, worship the latest football "hero" and see if your gun will make it all better when those third world illerterates out smart us!... AGAIN



We had better clean up our own yard first before we do not have one! Are your guns going to do anything for you when your city is blown to bits? Did you see anyone at the WTC concerned about their guns while 3000 FELLOW citizens were incinerated?



Yes, I am a gun owner and they will NOT take it away... they try... they die! I will not let my ownership of a weapon take on a life of its own.



It is easy to go with the "pack" and follow the masses, show some courage and think for yourselves rather than follow the one in front... . the view NEVER changes from wher your'e at!





I will end this lightly with a e-mail sent by a friend:





Think about this:

a. The number of physicians in the US is 700,000.

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 120,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0. 171. (US Dept. of Health & Human

Services)



Then think about this:



a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000.

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is

1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is . 0000188.

Statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than

gun

owners.





FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE

DOCTOR.



Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We must ban doctors

before

this gets out of hand. As a public health measure I have withheld the

statistics on lawyers for fear that the shock could cause people to seek

medical attention.



Mike

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Mildly off-topic - but certainly including attacks upon gun owners - here's a recent letter to the editor I sent (yeah - I *do* write to other places besides TDR... )



====

Here's my take on the "pledge" issue:



FACT is, the decision or attempt to "erase" God from our society is, in itself, of little actual consequence...

NOR is the constant effort by our government or individuals to outlaw personal ownership of weapons - or the right of free

speech...



What *IS* significant, is the FACT that such efforts are the visible YARDSTICK by which we can measure exactly WHERE we in our society currently find ourselves in time, and the eyes of our government and those who vigorously support such measures! (OR who are carelessly INDIFFERENT to them!)



The GUNS - or newspapers - or use of "God" in pledges are NOT the main issue - merely a SYMPTOM of the REAL illness that so seriously grips and threatens our continued existance as a society!



Those who would propose to LEGISLATE AWAY from our society the FREEDOM to openly express our PERSONAL devotion to our God, to vigorously and aggressively PROTECT ourselves from the physical abuses of predators - 2 OR 4 legged, in or out of government - and to openly express our opposition to thoughts and actions we feel are designed to HARM us in any significant way, are the very ones who are actively drilling a multitude of HOLES in the hull of the "State-ship" that carries us all - and we ALL will just as surely DROWN in the inevitable disaster of our OWN MAKING as did Rome and other civilazations and governments that came, then perished, before us!



Count on it!

=====

 

[Champane Flight]

Blame?

I am not looking for someone to blame in ANY situation. I am looking for a way to stop the situation. In the case of a seventeen year old grabbing Granmas gun, who is to blame? I would say the seventeen year old! THE person holding the gun! Who is to blame for making the weapon available? Granma, period! I don't know of to many seventeen year olds that I would give permission or let know where and how to get ahold of a gun. Mind you, there are a few, but not to many. So if Stepdad gets killed because he won't let a spoiled Brat go out and play, how do you rectify it? You put a lock on your gun, period. You secure your weapons. That includes the 51 Stude, if the kid is that unstable.

 

[sdalton]

956, I did not accuse Dodge boy of being antigun, only narrow minded and myopic in his reasonings and views.

As for you hinting at Doctors being more dangerous than guns. That is just a plain STUPID inference. Let us see what the mortality rate would be in this world a year from now if all physicians just up and quit.

I bet almost everyone that subscribes to the TDR has benefitted more from a physicians help than have been hurt.

If you have been hurt, then how many times have you been helped??



There are good doctors and bad, the good far outway the bad, but you cant get rid of them all because of a few bad ones.

You just try to weed out the bad ones.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"As for you hinting at Doctors being more dangerous than guns. That is just a plain STUPID inference. Let us see what the mortality rate would be in this world a year from now if all physicians just up and quit.

I bet almost everyone that subscribes to the TDR has benefitted more from a physicians help than have been hurt.

If you have been hurt, then how many times have you been helped?? "







I suspect the POINT of the statistics concerning doctors went completely over your head! POINT being, that the USE of statistics like those CAN and frequently ARE used to twist reality, and demonize things, people and issues FAR beyond reality!



Do ya think?

 

[sdalton]

Gary. You are correct. But I just didnt read well enough into the post. At least the last part. I was just getting too ****** to finish to know that it was a joke.

 

[KMC]

The other component here is that Doctors are getting more and more anti-gun. The AMA, etc. are very anti-gun. The reason? "Guns are dangerous and a liability to health" I guess they better look at thier own statistics before pointing the finger...



And yes Doctors save lots of lives and I for one have bennefited and am thankful. However firearms have saved lots of lives as well.



So stay armed and visit your doctor!

 

[Wayno]

If you have to put a lock on the gun that a person has in their home for that after dark thief, the gun would be useless. The chances of getting the lock off in a heat of the moment emergence, in the middle of the night are slim to none. Most kids today see nothing but violence on the T. V. and not to mention all that trashy rap c#@p they here on the radio. I think teaching kids about guns when they are in grade school would be a good ideal, but I would bet there would be a bunch of parents that would raise nine kinds of h##l and it would never happen. Here is a little statistic for ya. A good friend of mine has been a police officer all of his life ( he is 47 ). He has been married to his wife for about 27 years. When he married her she had to young kids,(very young). He is the only Dad they have ever nown. They were raised around guns and they were taught about the dangers. But as time past by and liveing in a big city and listing to all of that trashy rap music and watching all the trash on TV, they both turn into little gang banger wannabe. There mom and step dad did everthing they could do to change them but it did no good. They both even got in trouble with the law and that didnt even phase them. Well one day I was over at their house, while I was sitting at the kichen table,their son got mad at me for some little BS thing I had done that didnt even concern him ( he never like me anyway ). He was sixteen or seventeen at the time. The next thing I knew he came running out of his bed room with a gun. I caught a glimpse of him out of the corner of my eye. I swung around as he was just putting it up to my head and grab it just in time and took it out of his hand. Now at first I did not think it was loaded, but guess what it was. His parents did not know he had it and did not know where he got it. Not much time after that he got into a fist fight in another town with kids his own age , and he was kill, oh and by the way not with a gun. In this day and time if a teenager wants drugs they can find it, if they want a gun they can find it also. I guess I should tell all of my freinds with children to lock up their guns not only in their house but on the street too, not to mention the T. V. and the radio too. I know its a shame when a young child gets kill on accident with a gun , but there comes a time when they come of age they should know better, if they have a brain at all in their head.

 

[The patriot]

I got a question for ya...

I dont have kids, do I need to lock my guns up?

 

['956Wheel]

STUPID

sdalton, Being you posted, without hesitation, that what I said was "stupid", I will not hesitate to do the same. Wake up your sleepy head and re-read the post... it was a joke and it seems YOU were the only one not getting it! STUPID HUH? Scary that people like you have guns.



I do no anticipate an apology as you probably lack what it takes to know when to do so.



Mike

 

['956Wheel]

Originally posted by sdalton

956, I did not accuse Dodge boy of being antigun, only narrow minded and myopic in his reasonings and views.

As for you hinting at Doctors being more dangerous than guns. That is just a plain STUPID inference. Let us see what the mortality rate would be in this world a year from now if all physicians just up and quit.

I bet almost everyone that subscribes to the TDR has benefitted more from a physicians help than have been hurt.

If you have been hurt, then how many times have you been helped??



There are good doctors and bad, the good far outway the bad, but you cant get rid of them all because of a few bad ones.

You just try to weed out the bad ones.

The above is why we may lose our guns someday, too many folks representing the right to bear arms can't read, think and are jumpy... . hair trigger? This is the type of man that would shoot a family member for getting a glass of milk at 2 in the morning.



Mike



P. S. Patriot, I would lock all but one up and the one MUST be in your direct control or locked up too. This is my opinion as we, gun owners, must assure that our guns do not get stolen and wind up in some robbery to support some crack addict.

 

[daveshoe]

More guns less crime

John Lott wanted to write a treatise proving the availability of guns in this country caused high crime rates and death . Being an honest person caused him to seek out statistical evidence that would lead to reasoned conclusions . For example, he would compare areas of the country that were identical in population ,culture ,and income with the only variable being gun control or lack of it . He also compared crime statistics when a state enacted concealed carry legislation .

Hence the title of the book '' MORE GUNS LESS CRIME''

It is also interesting that his former liberal buddies do not offer a reasoned response , but instead choose to trash his reputation and offer emotion based arguments instead of disproving the methodology of his research.

Lott found that guns prevent 1. 5 MILLION crimes a year. He also found that the death rate of identical social/ economic groups increased with more restrictive gun laws!

Having a population armed is like wearing your seat belt . Occasionally a seatbelt can take a life , but the odds remain in your favor for wearing one. An armed population reduces risk of criminal attack even for those that choose not to arm themselves . It would be a neat trick if my wearing a seatbelt could save someone else' s life .

One more thing. It's one thing to ''feel safe'' when you are a 200 pound six foot male . What I invite you to do is to ask a friend who belongs to the NRA to give you several issues of his magazines . Look at how many times ''Stupid Handguns'' are used by old and infirm people to defend themselves . One example of a person in a wheelchair sticks in my memory!

 

[sdalton]

956, Get over yourself. I did admit I read your post wrong and junped the gun on you too soon. I do read quite well , just not that time. Your jumping to conclusions about me in the way you are doing now is way way out of line. If you cant accept an apology without being a complete horses butt about it then you are the one with the problem.



When you say "The above is why we may lose our guns someday, too many folks representing the right to bear arms can't read, think and are jumpy... . hair trigger? This is the type of man that would shoot a family member for getting a glass of milk at 2 in the morning. "



By you stating what you just stated about me, you have truely shown your hind end. By saying that I am the type of man that would shoot a family member at 2 am when they go to get milk, Geez you are something arent you. Truely amazing.



Scott

 

[Champane Flight]

Like

Wayno, Like I have said the chances of you having a gun when violence strikes is pretty nill. I keep one on the headboard when I go to sleep. I wear one 80% of the time when I am in the great outdoors. If a burgalar, murderer, or gangbanger broke in would I have time to lock a round in, aim, and fire? Maybe, maybe not. Does it make me feel more secure? Yes definitly! What makes me feel more insecure is the fact that I have four more weapons in the hall closet unsecured, no ammo with them, but unsecured. No, I do not have locks on my weapons, and all my kids are grown and gone. Have thought of buying a gun safe for the closet, but it is on my list of wants, not needs. It should be the other way around. I do not think there should be a law prescribing the use of gun locks and safes, but I do feel it should be thought of and is needed in cases of children in the home.



This society does feed children a bunch of %$#$ and should try more restraint and disipline with them. Instead we try to give our children more than we had, better chances, and more stuff. I have never heard one parent out there say "I had it OK, I think I will give my kid the same thing". In some cases a kid turns out OK and some turn bad. The seventeen year old I spoke of earlier had been given everything and has NO disipline. In fact after the gun was taken away and he was carted off to jail, Momma and G-ma went down and bailed the kid out and sent him to a high priced shrink! They acually think they are helping him! The stepdad was not shot, but is still shaking his head and thinking of leaving wife, Momma. In my book the kid needs a swift kick in the shorts and a ticket to the Marines. Let some big Drill Sargent handle him for awhile.



ALL weapons are loaded in my eyes, too many unloaded guns have killed people. As far as Doctors and stats go, they have a pretty good record, after all we all have to go sometime.



The truth is education is the only way to slow the tide and the only way to educate is to take a few of the wanabe gangbangers and kids who have video game babysitters who think life is but a joke to the morgue and jail. Show them the permanent effect of pulling the trigger! It may be harsh, but so is life... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... .....