"our jobs" and immigrants

[rob10858]

being in the golf course maint business for 16 years now, i have to vent a little about the way our feelings about "mexicans" taking jobs from us is viewed. this may p... some folks off, but i have to defend a person that would leave his homeland to try to make a better life for his or her family. forget for the moment, whose "legal" and whose not. from florida to jersey, i come into contact with immigrants that are doing the jobs that are considered beneath the average american's expectation of labor. everyone in our business has noticed that you cant get the average, "american" laborer to do anything that he percieves to be a menial task. im not bashing american workers, they are the best in the world, but someone has to do the dirty work. i have degrees in agronomy and soil science, but i drive a tractor all day. is this beneath me? nope. someone has to do it, and i take pride in the fact that the "migrants" that work along side of me take pride in whatever their job is also. i know, i talk to them at lunch and at breaks in the day, most of them are sending 75% of their money back home to their families, while living and working in the us. i dont hire them, nor fire them, but im the one working the dirt with them. if there wasnt a demand, there wouldnt be a supply. wake up folks, our grassroots arent being taken, their being given away. we need to train the next generation that manual labor isnt something to be ashamed of, but something to be admired. i hope this makes sense, id rather be out in the great outdoors and loving what i do, than to be trapped in an office hating life.

 

[NVR FNSH]

There was a thread a while back where this was discussed. I think illflem had some good insight into it. Also, I have friend who works in the family vineyards - he won't hire white guys for the field. Too lazy.....



Brian

 

[illflem]

packman I agree. I've been farming for over 30 years and love my work even while sweating my butt off out in a field. It's a pleasure watch and help things grow. Mexican workers are the only way to go, I could probably count the number of white folks I've hired on one hand, most worthless. Most Mexicans are simple honest people and are a pleasure to be around, there are probably more bad apples among whites. Problem is nowadays is even the Mexicans don't like ag work, most only last for a few years then want an easy inside job. These are the jobs they are taking away, not to mention jobs that would normally be filled by school kids. My feeling is that we need a steady supply of Mexican labor, but it needs to be under control like it was in the past (H-2 program). A farmer submits the number of workers he will need and they are allowed to enter and work for you till the work is done, then back to Mexico. Our southern border needs to be under control especially with the terrorist threat. We have enough people in this country as it is. The estimate is over 500,000 crossed the border last year illegally. Many of the illegal Mexican immigrants have figured out the system here, life can be much better than in Mexico without even working, just public assistance. Can't blame them for that but I think we can stop the flow. As long as the terrorist threat continues we had better do something with the southern border. If 500,000 people can sneak across it seems to me that Bin Laden can get away with hauling any kind of weapon and soldiers he pleases across also. For some reason I've heard nothing about tightening the Mexican border recently. If we can't do that we may as well surrender to the terrorists now.

 

['956Wheel]

Who can give an HONEST reason to object to ANY hard working mans being here?



I hired a man from Central America to remove 5 layers of shingles off the roof, if you have ever done this in 100 degree weather you know its a tough, hard job, I did the garage and then admitted it was too much! Anyway, he did twice the work in about 1/2 the time and asked for 5 bucks an hour! He got 10 an hour. I climbed the ladder and left him lunch and the scrapeing never stopped... but the food disappeared! Go figure.



Bottom line, you gotta give an individual a chance before you start generalizing. My feeling is if I were born in a poor country with lousy living conditions and could go north a bit to make a better life for my family I would be a fool not to.



Now, if entry to the U. S. means welfare, govt. assistance etc. than stay home but if your here to pick up the slack that I and others just aren't built for... .come on in.



Mike

 

[NVR FNSH]

Originally posted by '956Wheel

Now, if entry to the U. S. means welfare, govt. assistance etc. than stay home but if your here to pick up the slack that I and others just aren't built for... .come on in.



Mike

Can't do, won't do or no longer can do? Aren't built for my a$$



Brian

 

[joesoot]

The Mexicans I have worked with over the past 3 months were incredible workers and good moral people. My only hang-up is

that I am now laid-off, unemployed due to the fact that they will work for 1/2 to 2/3 what I get paid. And none of them are legal citizens but if asked to go to war for the USA they would do it with no hesitation. They are my friends yet they are also the reason I am out of work, a bittersweet circumstance.

I've been around folks from south of the border ever since I had a job (15), working in peach orchards, regular service and customer service jobs, and constuction. Most are A1 individuals like you or I just trying to get by. Like I said before my quarrells(sp?) are that they don't have much confidence in how much they are worth, which is an advantage to the employer who might take advantage.

Speak the language, make an effort to become a citizen and work hard... . spells success.

Hope this post doesn't come across as racist.

 

[joesoot]

Originally posted by NVR FNSH

Also, I have friend who works in the family vineyards - he won't hire white guys for the field. Too lazy.....



Brian

BS!!!!!

 

[Chad Sheets]

Its all good as long as they are paying taxes. Doesnt take a math expert to come up with the equation of one tax paying American out of work=no tax being collected. One Mexican/South American/whatever working and taking all the $$$ someplace else and not paying taxes either=a bad deal for the economy that will get us in the end.



Not all of America can work for a few bucks and a sack of french fries all day. Its like the plants GM opened up down there in Mexico paying about $14 a day. Sooner or later enough people will be afected and the economy will take a big hit like it is now.



Exactly how? Who is going to buy all the new cars and trucks, and new $5000 lawn mowers places like John Deere are trying to sell while they put more plants up down south? The people making $14 a day? I bet not. Will it be the people who are now out of a job? I bet not. Spending is down for a reason. Its not because there is nothing apealing out there to buy, its because the money is tight all around.



People are working for less than minimum wage, not paying taxes on it, and not circulating that money into the economy here in the US. That is not good.



Another thing, it always comes down to the $$$$$. I dont care if you have 3 white guys, a couple jews, two blacks and one eskimo and an iranian painting a house. If you can replace them with 9 Mexicans... even 15 Mexicans because you would still be money ahead... . and get the same amount of work done while saving 75% on wages, not to mention saving cash on legal stuff like workmans comp, medical insureance, safety eqpt, so on. Big companies didnt get where they are today by paying people to do a job when someone else will do it just as good for much less.

 

[NVR FNSH]

joesoot,

I live in Santa Rosa, CA - if a parcel of land doesn't have houses on it there are vineyards. I can't tell you the last time I saw a white guy/gal working as part of a crew NOT the supervisor sitting on the quad/mule... ...



If I get laid off from my engineering job in the tele-comm business am I going to be out harvesting grapes? Not until I exhaust all other options. The work IS too darn hard for the amount of pay IMO. Somebody wants to pay me my current salary to pick grapes I'd be happy to 'cause I'm sure there's a lot less headache involved. I don't picture a grape picker having to deal with Malaysians and their 'desire' to local source every component that goes into one of our 'magic smoke & moonbeam' boxes.



Brian

 

[illflem]

Chad, if a Mexican worker isn't paying taxes it's because a greedy employer isn't withholding them. Most are not just paid under the table, some share SS numbers or use a made up number, I had what must have been an illegal alien paying into my SS account for 3 years!! Many times tax is withheld and isn't filed on for a refund when one is due. Wish I had 14 dependents!! I don't think not paying taxes is something we can lay on illegal Mexicans.

 

[weber1048]

The owner of the trailer park and myself are the only caucasians on this side of town. The rest are Hspanics. Mattawa, Washington where I live when on shift is 90+% Hspanic. At 6 in the morning there is a regular traffic jam when they are leaving for the orchards and vinyard in the area. As Illflem can attest they are hard working, both men and ladies. The ones left in town are watching the kids of the ones working.



If the are not paying taxes it's the owners who are not holding them out. Each year in my PO box I get between 15 and 20 W-2's for people who use my PO number but must not file for a return, so they are most likly paying more than there share.



I have a never had a problem with there honesty, even though my trailer sits vacant 5 months a year, it's just like I left it when I get back. They all act friendly even though I don't speak there language, but they smile and say Hi.



Doug

 

[rob10858]

its not just in the field, its the guy in richmond that takes your order at the fast food place. its the lady in seattle that cleans your hotel room, that list could go on and on , like the man said, "dont worry son, somebody has to dig the ditches"

 

[Chad Sheets]

Chad, if a Mexican worker isn't paying taxes it's because a greedy employer isn't withholding them.

True, but its a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" deal. The business guy isnt going to cry foul ball if he can get away with pocketing money saved on an illegal worker, especially when its tens of thousands of dollars every year going into his personal accounts. A guy here in town recently got busted for this and now owes the IRS over $75,000 for having illegals working for his small business for 2 years and not paying/withholding taxes on them.

Two wrongs dont make a right, but if everyone who is working in this country is paying taxes into it, then there would be a lot fewer opportunitys for the business people to cheat the system, and the migrant worker who is now paying taxes is still coming out ahead compared to what he was making before he came here anyway. Its a win/win situation. Taxes paid, everyone is still making more money than they would be if not here in the good old US of A.



Just make it fair, thats all I would like to see.