Overheating issue ??

[goodguys75]

flush and run for several days with distilled water... and change it several times in between,,,till it is clear in color ,,,,then fill with coolant. as long it does not freez at night

 

[JDubien]

Hi Cerberusiam,

I really haven't heard the fan come on and I don't have any codes either. I looked for deposits and didn't see any so I guess you might be right that its probably an electrical issue. Batteries are new this march as well. A manual gauge is a great idea at this point. I wouldn't even know where to start looking for a bad ground and the thought of a cluster controller makes me cringe... Thank you for the reply, I appreciate it.



Hi Motorhead,

I followed a write up by another member on flushing the radiator with distilled water and it worked great. I guess I got lucky cause my drain worked perfectly. I checked my fins while I had the fan out and everything was clean and clear so I'm agreeing with Cerberusiam on the electrical theory at this point. Thanks for the input, I really appreciate the reply.

 

[Wingate]

Check differental across cooler, er radiator... Work the truck pretty hard and check inlet and outlet of radiator...

 

[rscurtis]

I would lean toward a replacement radiator. Save your money on the fan, unless you know for sure it doesn't work. At speed, you don't need the fan at all. Elevated temperature at load and speed point to a clogged radiator.



I have never seen the fan activate on my signature truck based on coolant temperature alone, even when sitting in summer traffic for hours. The coolant temp will creep up to 210*, and I'm the one who surrenders first and turns on the AC which activates the fan and cools the engine right off.

 

[cerberusiam]

Elevated temperature at load and speed point to a clogged radiator.

Thats a dangerous assumption and basically not true. The fan must function correctly or you will see elevated temps at load and speed. Speed does forces enough air thru the combined coolers to adequately cool, it requires the fan to keep temps down.



A clogged radiator at speed with a functioning fan is a different scenario but validating the fan is working is the first step.



The 03's have a fan activation issue that was fixed with the later trucks. Its hard to compare the performance across years when the algorithms are different.

 

[RustyJC]

If you're pulling a heavy load up a steep grade and watching the temperature gauge climb, IF you don't hear the fan eventually kick in (and you WILL hear it), then you have a problem. On my 2002, the thermal fan clutch would kick in around 200-205 degrees or so (190 degF stock thermostat), while on the 2011, the fan kicks on around 210-215 degrees (200 degF stock thermostat). In both cases, the coolant temperature would drop back to normal within less than a minute at which time the fan would shut off.



If you're not hearing this, then that's the first problem I would solve before going any farther.



JM2CW.....



Rusty

 

[JDubien]

That's the way I thought the fan should work too. It's tough for me to hear the fan but am assuming it's not coming on because my temps are not staying in check like they used too. To be honest, I don't know if I've ever heard the fan engage, the truck just always ran cool where it was supposed to.
I have already replaced the clutch fan in hopes that was the issue. Do you all know if there's a relay or a fuse associated with the fan that could be bad or blown? If there is a fuse or relay for this, wouldn't it throw a code?

Thanks again for all the replies guys, this is great dialog!

 

[RustyJC]

I have already replaced the clutch fan in hopes that was the issue. Do you all know if there's a relay or a fuse associated with the fan that could be bad or blown? If there is a fuse or relay for this, wouldn't it throw a code?

I was of the impression that the engine cooling fan in the 3rd generation HPCR trucks was controlled by the ECU. Therefore, if you have replaced the electromagnetic fan clutch but it's not getting an "engage" signal from the ECU, you could still have a problem (which, if you don't hear the fan come on, it sounds like you do. )



Having said the above, I'll defer any further comments to those more knowledgeable regarding the 3rd gen trucks than I am (I skipped the 3rd gen!! :-laf )



Rusty

 

[cerberusiam]

The fan control relay is in the TIPM. The ECU activates the relay circuit with a control circuit. Multiple failure points that barring a dead short or open may NOT throw codes when something does not activate. The circuits and pieces could all be good but if the ECU circuit is bad it won't activate the fan and no codes are generated.



OP, can you hear the fan activate if you turn the AC on? At an idle in hot weather turning the AC on should activate the fan and make it noticeable. That will at least tell you if the control and relay circuit is working correctly.

 

[mwilson]

The fan control relay is in the TIPM. The ECU activates the relay circuit with a control circuit. Multiple failure points that barring a dead short or open may NOT throw codes when something does not activate. The circuits and pieces could all be good but if the ECU circuit is bad it won't activate the fan and no codes are generated.



OP, can you hear the fan activate if you turn the AC on? At an idle in hot weather turning the AC on should activate the fan and make it noticeable. That will at least tell you if the control and relay circuit is working correctly.

If the fan engages properly when the A/C pressure comes up then I would go a hunting for the sender that tells the ECM what the coolant temp really is... ... ... that is a common failure item on trucks, the sender will get out of range.



You may have to get someone to hook up a scan tool to see what the ECM is being told about water temperature.



Mike.

 

[JDubien]

Well after doing a lot more research on the awesome TIPM, it sure seems like our hands are tied when it comes to certain diagnostics and issues. While researching, I've realized a starscan tool for personal use is out of the question both support wise and financially. I did run into this option and would appreciate your opinions on it as it seems like it might be an option for some of us that are willing to go to the next step in diagnosing our TIPM issues as well as other issues without being at the mercy of our local dealership. It sure seems like a cost effective way to handle things ourselves, I mean if it saved a couple trips to a dealer, I think it would pay for itself. They offer windows based software with manufacturer specific packages. I am not affiliated with this vendor by any means, simply just looking for a way to diagnose without having to rely on a dealer.



AutoEnginuity® - OBD2 Scan Tool - Professional PC and PDA Diagnostics



The more I think about it, I believe my fan clutch is not being told to engage for whatever reason when necessary. Whether its a temp sending unit or a short in the TIPM or something that needs reset in the TIPM, one only knows.

 

[cerberusiam]

That tool is on my list to procur as funds become available. As near as I can tell from the marketing material it does a lot of what we want to do. Not sure it will enable every aspect we want nor is it as powerful as the dealer tool but for $500 it seems worthwhile.

 

[mwilson]

Same here, I am ready to purchase. Just waiting to make sure that the fifth wheel doesn't have some surprise waiting for me when I prep it for summer use this weekend and get the registration renewed.



As soon as that is done I am ordering the Auto Enginuity software. With a dooryard full of Mopar stuff I need it... .



Mike.

 

[JDubien]

Well guys, I purchased the AutoEnginuity software. It is very cool, I had no idea there would be 467 sensors available to view. Another cool thing is this will help with both my cummins and my jeep and any Chrysler product between 96 and 2011 so my dads cummins and jeep too. Their main office is here in Mesa so I went in and talked with them. I asked them if they knew about the TIPM having resettable capability IE:for trailer lighting, etc. They are going to look into the situation and see if it is something they can configure their software to allow to reset; currently it can not.



Anyway, back to my issue. After testing my fan clutch, its working fine when I force clutch lock up. Let me also say that it's very obvious when the clutch is locked up, that fan moves some serious air and definitely makes noticeable noise. So now that means my problem is either a short in the wiring going to the fan or an issue with the TIPM or the ECM. I double checked and there are no (visible/serviceable to us) fuses for the fan clutch in the TIPM. I checked the plug and harness that I can see and everything looks fine. I was able to observe when my AC is on, the fan clutch should lock up but doesn't, it barely spins to a thousand rpm even revving the engine to 2500 rpm. I also noticed my high side pressure spikes to over 300psi initially for a few minutes until the AC really starts cooling. I'm guessing that's due to not enough air passing through the condenser but I'm not sure.



So this confirms I have a communication problem to the fan. The dodge service manual gives some electrical diagnostic tests I can perform however its not really anything I'm familiar with and need to read up before I start probing things. My hopes is that the lesser of two evils would be a broken wire rather than a faulty TIPM or ECM.



Do you guys have any suggestions?

 

[Motorhead]

The fan doesn't lock up with the A/C on on my '07, 5. 9
300psi if it is warm isn't overly high either.
I have towed HARD with it being hot with my truck and have never heard the fan engage. I don't overheat either.

 

[JDubien]

Hi Motorhead,
I never paid attention to any of these things(fan clutch, TIPM etc. ) till my temp gauge started climbing well above its normal spot that's its been in for over 100k miles. I tow heavy (25k gcvw), accelerate hard, live in the desert with triple digit heat and never had any issues till recently. I don't know whats going on but something has changed and I don't want to end up on the side of the road with the Fords. I'm sure with the great help of the folks on the TDR and my determination, I'll figure it out and enlighten everyone.

 

[Motorhead]

I hope you do and tell us all what happened. Is there any chance that your radiator has plugged up some?
On your 5. 9, there are pipe plugs on the passenger side of the cylinder head. You can remove one of them and install a sender unit to a GOOD 2 inch round electrical temp gauge to check against the stock gauge.
Just to be clear... . does your engine show signs of overheating when the gauge is above normal? Could it just be the in-dash gauge?
I believe the ECM will also store temperatures of the engine.

 

[RustyJC]

Here's what I would do to confirm/eliminate the fan clutch's role in your problem:



1. Disconnect the fan clutch from the TIPM.

2. Rig a temporary switch to engage the fan clutch. Be sure the switch is accessible from the driver's seat.

3. Take the truck out and put it into a known situation that is causing overheating.

4. When the engine begins to overheat, turn on the temporary fan switch. Do you hear the fan engage? Does the truck cool down?



Rusty

 

[JDubien]

You guys have some great ideas however I think I'm going to wait until I tow again before I get too much more excited about this issue. It will be a couple weeks before I tow again since I'm living in my fiver while working out of town right now. Here's why



I drove from phoenix to flag yesterday (empty) but very aggressive with every effort to heat up the truck while having the autoenginuity software running on my laptop the whole trip. I could only get it hot on the major climbs running hard (Smarty #9). Some observations I noticed are as follows and all based on the AE software during my trip. I'm able to monitor several things digitally but chose to monitor coolant temp, fan speed, engine load and what I can only guess is the percentage of power sent to the fan for percentage of lock up when required (I don't know the abbreviation of the term used and will have to confirm)



The fan speed for the majority of the trip spun around 300-600 rpm's when just cruising down the road no matter the RPM when there's no significant load. The digital coolant temp seemed to match the gauge on the dash and when it would fluctuate even minor amounts and for the most part, it ran 195 which on the gauge is where the needle covers the 200 degree mark line. When I really tried working the truck hard could only get the engine load to come up to about 60% and noticed the fan speed would not increase until 205 degrees minimum at which point it looked as though the percentage of power to the clutch fan would vary from 15-89% causing the fan speed to increase to about 1300 rpms which is as high as I could get it to go and that is with the engine at 2800 rpms in 6th gear climbing a grade. At that speed, I quickly run out of hill to climb and the truck would cool down and things would be fine.



So I suppose everything is working as it should. I do not understand why the temp gauge in the dash never moved more than the width of the needle for 100k + miles and now all of a sudden its moving 3/8" to 1/2" when towing. Nothing is boiling over and there is no loss of power so far. To answer a couple questions, my radiator is very clean on the outside. When I flushed the coolant and changed the stat, there where no signs of corrosion or mineral buildup like I've seen in other vehicles. Next time I pull my fiver, I'll connect the laptop again and I will let you guys know what I discover.



You guys are great, consistently providing members invaluable information, ideas and resources that are truly a blessing to everyone!!

 

[CPittman]

If anyone does decide to do the radiator the part you get from www.1800radiator.com appears identical to the OEM item from the Dodge parts desk. Dodge part is $600 +/- and the 1800radiator part was around $150...



My 2 cents: you're not losing a torque converter are you?