Own a MH....Interested in 5th wheel

[AClayton]

My wife and I have recieved a lot of mail regarding great deals in purchasing a new RV. We have looked many times at RV shows and I read and researched on here and know what brands are better and so forth,however,a question often comes up about insurance. The only trailer I have ever owned was my 1st RV back in 97'... . it was an 82' Coachman 24'. Loved that trailer but traded up for an 88' MH,and have owned 3 others since then including the 04' I have now. Now that I have a truck to pull it,we were thinking of going with a 5th wheel and getting rid of the maintenance hassle of another vehicle to keep up. I realize the RV portion will still require maintenance,but I'm referring to insuring and maintaining another truck. I already service and maintain my Dodge.



Got off track..... what do you guys do with insurance on your 5th wheels and large TT's? My old trailer was covered by the tow vehicle. Is it the same with newer more expensive trailers?



My wife seems very interested in a Sunnybrook 37'... . The weight is marginal for my truck though... . weighs empty at 12K. I have heavy duty tires and air bags and a fresh new Goerend transmission. My tires are Load range E's and have a D70 axle. Naturally,the Dealer is telling me any truck with a Cummins is acceptable to pull this trailer. Never towed this heavy before for any period of time over maybe 4hrs with this truck.



Suggestions please and Insurance knowledge.





Thanks in advance! Alan Clayton

 

[HBarlow]

There are two approaches for insuring a travel trailer. One, the simplest and least expensive, is to simply add trailer coverage to your existing auto insurance policy. Most insurance companies will provide comprehensive and collision coverage and, of course, liability is not required. The other approach is to obtain insurance through one of the specialty RV insurors who some believe is better but more expensive. It is important to ask the insuror if it will be covered the way it will be used. It makes a difference with some insurance companies whether the trailer is towed or simply parked full time at a lake or other resort and it also matters if it will be lived in full time or just weekends and vacations.

You must already know that the manufacturer's dry weight is not an accurate weight and, even if it is, it is an irrelevant number because no one but an RV transporter ever tows an empty, dry trailer.

The only weight figure that provides any useful information is the GVWR. You can safely assume that your trailer will weigh close to GVWR when in use. A trailer will have two batteries installed, LPG in two 30# or 40# bottles, fresh water in the tank, some waste in the respective tanks, food, clothing, toiletries, cooking utensils, pots and pands, bedding, personal effects, tools, outdoor equipment, etc.

I've owned and extensively towed two fifth wheels and have pulled trailers I didn't own commercially for more than a couple hundred thousand miles. I could have chosen any size when I bought my HH two years ago. I chose what the manufacturer calls a 32LK which is actually 33' 9" long. It has a GVWR of 14,100#.

I wouldn't care to own or routinely tow a trailer any longer or heavier unless, possibly, if we decided to become full-timers and then, not with a dual rear wheel Ram 3500. For anything larger/heavier than approximately 14,000# I would own and tow with an MDT.

It is absolutely true that a Ram 3500 dually can tow any trailer (with good brakes) with a kingpin weight that doesn't exceed the truck's GVWR and rear GAWR but having done it many times and tens of thousands of miles I don't consider it pleasurable. It becomes a chore and will eventually discourage you from using the trailer for weekend getaways and quick vacation trips. RVing is supposed to be fun, not work.

 

[BBeck]

I have a separate policy for my trailer with State Farm that is only $120 a year for my '04 Jayco 33ft TT (including hitch). I also have auto and home with them. In addition, I have an "umbrella" policy of $1 Million in coverage (with an additional premium of only $218 a year).



Unless you are a fulltimer or a snowbird, I would strongly discourage a trailer that large. I agree with HBarlow, that it will just become a chore to park, manuever and enjoy. Also, anything over 32ft limits the campsites you can go to.



Best wishes,

Brad

 

[AClayton]

So it would probably be safe to say that a 14K trailer fully loaded will exceed 16K fully loaded. That would certainly overload my SRW truck.



I guess we have a serious decision to make..... the Dealer is willing to pay our current MH off and knock $5K off of retail. This still puts me at financing $32K for 10 more yrs. MH will be paid for in less than 6 yrs. BUT,this is the trailer that will overload my truck also. Myself,I like the 30' Arctic Fox leftover 08'!!Same price and a little less weight but larger axles and an improved suspension... . no leaf-springs!!Wife doesn't like it as much as the Sunnybrook





Many decisions... . probably should just keep what we have with the poor economy. I was trying to eliminate another vehicle to maintain while getting a newer RV.



Alan

 

[Jim W]

In my area I have seen many users pull the Titanium 5ers made by Glendale RV company out of Canada with SRW tucks. In fact they advertise that they can be pulled by SRW trucks as the "The Worlds Most Aerodynamic Fifth Wheel" . The dealer in my are pulls these with a 3/4 ton gasser (Chevy) to all of the RV shows. You may want to look into one of these if you can find a dealer in your area. Just a thought.

 

[AClayton]

I know,I like the design of those and the xterior finish. We were looking at a couple of those also but the better half cannot seem to find a floorplan she likes in any of the top rated 5th wheels. Not discounting Sunnybrook of course,but I can see the differences between a so so trailer and one manufactured by a reputable Co. like Arctic Fox or some others.



Thanks Alan

 

[BrianJ]

... the Dealer is willing to pay our current MH off and knock $5K off of retail. This still puts me at financing $32K for 10 more yrs... .

Not sure how the value and payoff of your MH affect the calculation, but $5k off the 5er certainly does not sound like a good deal. I have owned three trailers, all bought before the economy hit the RV market, and NEVER paid more than 75% of MSRP. In this market I would expect at least 25% off of MSRP. Of the family and friends that own RV's, all of them have the same experience with a discount of no less than 25% off MSRP. On our last purchase (in the sig), we got within $500 of the NADA retail value on our trade, as well as a price on the new toyhauler discounted appx 25%.



Again, with the decline in RV values maybe they are paying you a premium over NADA on the MH to pay it off, but I would expect the combination of the two to net at least a25% discount off MSRP.

 

[HBarlow]

I ordered my HH two years ago from a distant dealer in another state close to the manufacturer even though there is a HH dealer in Lubbock. I gave the local dealer an opportunity to get my business and he blew his chance. I paid a price less than 25% off MSRP. Stated in more conventional language, I paid 73% of MSRP plus only 100 miles of delivery from factory to dealer by going after it myself. And don't anyone misunderstand what I'm saying here, the dealer still made money on the sale.

My purchase was in early 2007, before the RV market declined and the price was for a new, special-ordered unit to my specifications. It was a straight purchase, no trade. Sales were still strong then.

Now it's a buyer's market. A wise and informed RV buyer with cash or good credit can make his own deal and tell a dealer to take it or leave it. If someone is willing to buy a 2008 or 2009 trailer from inventory, particularly a large heavy one that is hard to sell, 30% to 40%, even as much as 50% off retail is possible. Dealers are wanting badly to unload such a drain on their flooring account and eliminate the monthly interest they're paying for a big unsold trailer to sit around.

Alan, I'm not sure what you meant in the first line of your second post regarding fully loaded weight. I think you were inquiring about the spread between empty, dry weight and fully loaded. Reread your post and you'll see what I mean. My advice is always ignore any weight but trailer GVWR, truck GVWR, and truck rear axle GAWR. No other weight and certainly trailer empty/dry weight doesn't matter. A trailer will weigh close to GVWR when in use and even if you occasionally travel light you don't want to own a large, comfortable fifth wheel trailer that overloads your truck when it's ready to travel. Assume GVWR and make sure your truck can handle it fully loaded.

Now, let me offer a piece of advice for you younger men. Make sure you are seated. Women usually make decisions based on colors, frills, and minor issues such as a floorplan detail instead of what matters like brand, construction quality, size, weight, and towability. RVs are much too expensive and frills are too far down the priority list to allow most women to make the selection. I discuss my plans with my wife and include her in the selection but only allow her to see and consider what's on my list of approved choices. I simply don't allow her to even consider a manufacturer or size I have already ruled out. It makes life simpler. She can select the colors and some of the details. Just to show her what a nice guy I am I even ordered the HH with a built-in vacuum cleaner.

I'm chuckling to myself as some of you men squirm or curse me under your breath or the few women who read this react in outraged feminist rants!

One last comment. I know from long experience on this and other forums that other people make their own decisions about RV brands based on reasons other than my own so I don't waste any time or emotion trying to persuade anyone to buy what I bought. I will, however, suggest you check the NuWa Industries website before you decide. Mike Mitchell, NuWa CEO, announced a new business plan and pricing strategy early this year. He has significantly lowered the MSRP of new HitchHiker units, something on the order of 20% or more off last year's prices, and will now sell direct from the factory eliminating dealer markup and bs. No negotiation is necessary or permitted. A company sales rep will tell you the price and allow you to order and pick the trailer up from them when it is completed. The factory will take trades at trade-in values but I don't know if they'll take a motorhome (I wouldn't).

 

[RVTRKN]

My 05 33. 5v Arctic fox can be legally pulled by my 04. 5 2500 CTD, per the pin weight and the GVWR as well as the RAWR. But I would prefer the 3500 C&C, however that being said I would pull it with the 2500 if I had too, and it would still be legal, but that is with it weighed without full tanks hitched to my 2500 on a certified Cat scale.



The Arctic Fox you referred to is a nice 5ver and is well built, but the best feature I like on the Arctic Fox, is that the frame and axles are rated higher than most 5vers the same size.



As for the price of 5vers, today they are getting a little more for them then they were last year due to the Dealers inventories being a lot less. I bought my 05 Arctic Fox for 17. 5K last January and it was in like new condition. but it was a used 5ver sold on consignment in La Grand OR. were they are made. That 08 you mentioned should be at 50% less if you drive a hard bargain. I kept trying to purchase a new 06 Cedar Creek I wanted but they wouldn't deal as low as I wanted in late 08. I'm glad I bought the Arctic Fox, it is a superior unit for the features I mentioned earlier, and it didn't break the bank.

 

[Jeff Knight]

Alan,



If you aren't in a hurry the Rv show in Hershey Pa is coming up. I don't know where Boyd is in MD but it might be worth the trip to the show. It's Sept 16-20. It's a pretty big show. I'll be going on Sat this year.



Jeff

 

[AClayton]

Alan,



If you aren't in a hurry the Rv show in Hershey Pa is coming up. I don't know where Boyd is in MD but it might be worth the trip to the show. It's Sept 16-20. It's a pretty big show. I'll be going on Sat this year.



Jeff

We are planning to attend that show. Boyds is south of Frederick off 270. You buying ot looking?



Alan

 

[AClayton]

I ordered my HH two years ago from a distant dealer in another state close to the manufacturer even though there is a HH dealer in Lubbock. I gave the local dealer an opportunity to get my business and he blew his chance. I paid a price less than 25% off MSRP. Stated in more conventional language, I paid 73% of MSRP plus only 100 miles of delivery from factory to dealer by going after it myself. And don't anyone misunderstand what I'm saying here, the dealer still made money on the sale.



My purchase was in early 2007, before the RV market declined and the price was for a new, special-ordered unit to my specifications. It was a straight purchase, no trade. Sales were still strong then.



Now it's a buyer's market. A wise and informed RV buyer with cash or good credit can make his own deal and tell a dealer to take it or leave it. If someone is willing to buy a 2008 or 2009 trailer from inventory, particularly a large heavy one that is hard to sell, 30% to 40%, even as much as 50% off retail is possible. Dealers are wanting badly to unload such a drain on their flooring account and eliminate the monthly interest they're paying for a big unsold trailer to sit around.



Alan, I'm not sure what you meant in the first line of your second post regarding fully loaded weight. I think you were inquiring about the spread between empty, dry weight and fully loaded. Reread your post and you'll see what I mean. My advice is always ignore any weight but trailer GVWR, truck GVWR, and truck rear axle GAWR. No other weight and certainly trailer empty/dry weight doesn't matter. A trailer will weigh close to GVWR when in use and even if you occasionally travel light you don't want to own a large, comfortable fifth wheel trailer that overloads your truck when it's ready to travel. Assume GVWR and make sure your truck can handle it fully loaded.



Now, let me offer a piece of advice for you younger men. Make sure you are seated. Women usually make decisions based on colors, frills, and minor issues such as a floorplan detail instead of what matters like brand, construction quality, size, weight, and towability. RVs are much too expensive and frills are too far down the priority list to allow most women to make the selection. I discuss my plans with my wife and include her in the selection but only allow her to see and consider what's on my list of approved choices. I simply don't allow her to even consider a manufacturer or size I have already ruled out. It makes life simpler. She can select the colors and some of the details. Just to show her what a nice guy I am I even ordered the HH with a built-in vacuum cleaner.



I'm chuckling to myself as some of you men squirm or curse me under your breath or the few women who read this react in outraged feminist rants!



One last comment. I know from long experience on this and other forums that other people make their own decisions about RV brands based on reasons other than my own so I don't waste any time or emotion trying to persuade anyone to buy what I bought. I will, however, suggest you check the NuWa Industries website before you decide. Mike Mitchell, NuWa CEO, announced a new business plan and pricing strategy early this year. He has significantly lowered the MSRP of new HitchHiker units, something on the order of 20% or more off last year's prices, and will now sell direct from the factory eliminating dealer markup and bs. No negotiation is necessary or permitted. A company sales rep will tell you the price and allow you to order and pick the trailer up from them when it is completed. The factory will take trades at trade-in values but I don't know if they'll take a motorhome (I wouldn't).

:-lafMy Parents are in their 60's and my Mom has always 'wore the pants' so to speak. But Pops always used to say he wore the belt that held up the pants!!Dad always had the upper hand when it counted... . I honestly don't know what happened to me,I have say to some extent,but if it is something she wants bad... . it's done!!I don't get it!!I try to assert myself... ... goes nowhere!It used to be whoever the 'bread winner' was... . which I am,but that still doesn't count



All I know is..... I don't want the Sunnybrook... . too heavy for my truck I think. It has 2 8K axles and grosses at 17. 5K fully loaded. Unloaded trailer weight is 14K. My truck has power, but I don't want to pull a Titanic up and down the road. I am trying very hard to convince her to purchase an upper scale model. I work on these things on the side and she has seen many,many RV's in and out of our driveway..... but is still stuck on what I think is a cheaper made RV. She likes the front LR over the hitch with rear bedroom. I simply love the 30'Arctic Fox and it is a highly rated RV. It has an upgraded suspension almost rated as high as the Sunnybrook and 8' shorter. My MH is 35' but the 1st 6' is cab and basically un-usable space.



Anyway,we have actually decided to wait until Hershey next month and see what they have to offer. I'm afraid I will end up pushing my luck and seriously limit HER control in this particular purchase. She will never tow this trailer,I will.



And yeah... . for you guys that wear the pants in the household,that is great... . I DONT and it does suck sometimes!!





Alan

 

[HBarlow]

It's not your fault, Alan. Feminism and a couple of other "isms" I don't care for came out of the '60s and I suspect many women of your generation run their households. If you look out across America now you observe that women now occupy most of the jobs. Their husbands are often underemployed, unemployed, or relegated to jobs beneath their ability and education.

Maybe you can use your extensive RV knowledge of contruction methods and quality as well as weight and towability to "persuade" the boss.

 

[AClayton]

Without dabbing too much off topic here... with some of the GF's Ive had in the past,none were Career oriented and I always had the great job with all the responsibility. That equated to me 'wearing the pants' and was fine until you grow tired of the childesh antics the 'younger' ladies are capable of.



I finally met a career inspired woman 6yrs ago through the RV club... . never been married,had a great job,no kids and street smart... . if that makes sense!She works for a major Ins. Co. and teaches classes... . most likely where the assertiveness comes fromShe doesn't take any $hi!! and I guess this attitude comes home with her. She is very aware that I know more about RV's but is convinced ..... SHE can make an informed decision



Anyway... we had a detailed discussion last night and I humbly listened while she entertained her thoughts and then I explained to her the importance of the frame and running gear and all the mechanics of an RV. She concluded;of course,that she already knew this and that we do not want to make a hasty purchase. We agreed to go to Hershey and look some more and try and get a better deal.







Alan

 

[HBarlow]

Alan, The benefits of having a smart one, besides the obvious advantages of good job and bringing home a great paycheck to contribute to a high standard of living, is they can often be convinced with facts and figures. Sounds like you're doing okay.

Afterthought: You could allow her to insist on the larger, heavier trailer with the agreement that she'll agree to buy you a new dually or an MDT to pull it.

 

[Jeff Knight]

Alan,



I'm still in the looking stage. We don't have enough time off to justify the purchase. Plus my job is in question. My wife likes Sunnybrook as does yours. My wife doesn't want something big so that is a plus. I told her that I want a dually before we get a 5'er. She doesn't go to the show with me because we aren't ready to buy.



I'm leaning towards the Bighorn by Heartland RV. If I had the money I would definitly look at New Horizons out of Junction City KS.



Good luck with whatever you and your wife decide.



Jeff

 

[AClayton]

Alan, The benefits of having a smart one, besides the obvious advantages of good job and bringing home a great paycheck to contribute to a high standard of living, is they can often be convinced with facts and figures. Sounds like you're doing okay.



Afterthought: You could allow her to insist on the larger, heavier trailer with the agreement that she'll agree to buy you a new dually or an MDT to pull it.

Now that is a good idea..... convince her the trailer she wants is too heavy for my truck but a new 6. 7 dually will do it just fine



From the feedback I've been getting,it is pretty obvious the Dealer with the Sunnybrook may not be giving us the best deal..... strange,with the economy and all. Maybe they're starting high with the assumption we will haggle them down. Dunno!



Alan

 

[AClayton]

Alan,



I'm still in the looking stage. We don't have enough time off to justify the purchase. Plus my job is in question. My wife likes Sunnybrook as does yours. My wife doesn't want something big so that is a plus. I told her that I want a dulley before we get a 5'er. She doesn't go to the show with me because we aren't ready to buy.



I'm leaning towards the Bighorn by Heartland RV. If I had the money I would definitly look at New Horizons out of Junction City KS.



Good luck with whatever you and your wife decide.



Jeff

Thanks Jeff... . we may see at the show;Can't decide whether to take off Friday and go or just go Saturday and fight the crowd.



I am trying to convince mine that we only take weekend trips and towing a rig 37' is way overkill. I simulated what 3500K would be like in my truck and it handled it well but that doesn't include the 13 or 14K being jolted around behind me. I have towed many travel trailers in the 34' range at about 10 to maybe 12K before..... But,I will need time to adjust to the weight of a 5th wheel and gain more driving experience.



I was joking about wanting a bigger truck..... I would LIKE one but the whole reason for getting a trailer is to reduce costs by getting rid of a vehicle... . said MH. I like my truck and it is paid for



Alan

 

[HBarlow]

Now that is a good idea..... convince her the trailer she wants is too heavy for my truck but a new 6. 7 dually will do it just fine

From the feedback I've been getting,it is pretty obvious the Dealer with the Sunnybrook may not be giving us the best deal..... strange,with the economy and all. Maybe they're starting high with the assumption we will haggle them down. Dunno!

Alan

Some dealers simply aren't very smart but have looked good and made money during the good times and are unable to change their business practices when times get tough in the industry as they are now. Many are gone, bankrupt, and selling trailers at other dealerships or used cars now. Some are simply very stubborn, perhaps stupid, even when faced with the present harsh realities.

I told a local dealer I would order a new one from him if he would price it at a percentage or fixed dollar amount over invoice that I would accept and back it up with a copy of the invoice. He refused so I went home and got on the phone. The second dealer I called agreed and made me an offer better than I really expected and thousands below the local dealer's offer.

The great thing about buying travel trailers (or MHs, cars, trucks, etc. ) is they are portable or self-propelled and there are dealers selling the identical products all over the country. There is no reason to buy from a guy who won't work with you. Lots of smart buyers order by telephone and make it a vacation to go to another state to pick up their new unit. A friend of mine here recently drove to Michigan to buy a leftover big fifth wheel at a huge discount. He and his wife made it a vacation trip and a shake-down cruise for their new fiver.

 

[Jeff Knight]

Alan,



When I become ready to buy we will go tour the factories of the units we are interested in. Most of them are located in IN around Elkhart. That part of the country has been hit hard with unemployment.



We travel to CO to visit my stepson so someday we'll have to stop in Junction City KS to tour New Horizons.



Friday is the better day because of the crowds. I'm undecided which day I'll be going.



Jeff