Oxygen injection.....care to post your thoughts?

[Dl5treez]

Interesting. A few of those guys seem to know their stuff, a few others, well..... it is after all TDS. :-laf



http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubb...ber=2466951&page=0&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

 

[nickleinonen]

i hope no one gets killed by trying what they read in this thread...



i know of one death from someone trying to start an old cat dozer with oxygen in the intake instead of ether [buddy took a torch and turned on the o2 and went to the cab to start it]... engine scattered before it made like 3 complete turns...

 

[AKAMAC]

I'm with Nick on this one. O2 and fuel = flamable S#IT. Fuel oil is a no no with O2.

 

[KLockliear]

Basically what nitrous is, but in an inert form. Plus, the N2 in it cools everything down.



N2O by itself won't burn.

 

[Dl5treez]

The first time I read that thread I thought "what the... ... ???"



Sounds like a few of them have tried it and found it to be "not worth the trouble. " Yikes... .



Seems they're divided about halfway on "won't work" vs. "will kill you". At least some of them are using their whole brains. :-laf

 

[CrashCade]

God, I hope for healths sake they are truly joking. That is what N20 is for. Supplies mor Oxygen to the fire. Put a open flame to pure Oxy and watch that video on the darwin awards... .

 

[nps]

Like Crash and Keith said.



O2 would work like nitrous, but O2 is VERY dangerous to store, and spontaneously reacts with alot of seemingly inert stuff if you get a leak, even without a flame.



Use nitrous and be safe.

 

[Hokey]

Bad Idea IMHO Don't do it.

 

[Rocketdoc]

I'm a rocket test propulsion engineer who works with liquid oxygen systems. I have experience working with high-pressure liquid oxygen systems designed to operate at thousands of psi. At higher pressures essentially everything is a fuel to oxygen, including metals. Although LOX and GOX are not considered hypergolic with many potential fuels, it doesn't take much impact energy to initiate combustion in a big way. NASA has spent millions and millions of your tax dollars performing impact ignition energy tests just to find valve soft goods that don't react with oxygen at high flow velocities. Go here to see a charcoal grill with LOX poured on it, and then make your own decision!



http://www.doeblitz.net/ghg/

 

[Dl5treez]

Rocketdoc,



Funny thing is even though I and most everyone else on this site agree with you, try posting that over there & see what happens. :-laf



I give up on that thread.....

 

[Vaughn MacKenzie]

Well if you think it's a bad idea check this out. These guys found that with oxygen elevated to only 23% they saw considerable improvement in emissions & power, at least on an old EMD locomotive engine: http://www.techtransfer.anl.gov/techtour/clean-diesel.html

 

[Dl5treez]

Exactly, elevated to 23%.



Nitrous oxide is only 36% O2 by weight & look what that does.



It's not a bad idea if controlled correctly, and it doesn't take much pure compressed oxygen to go from correctly to boom... .

 

[nps]

Well if you think it's a bad idea check this out. These guys found that with oxygen elevated to only 23% they saw considerable improvement in emissions & power, at least on an old EMD locomotive engine: http://www.techtransfer.anl.gov/techtour/clean-diesel.html

Vaughn,



From your own article:



"Carrying bottled oxygen has never been an option because of safety issues. "



The only thing anyone said was bottling pure oxygen was bad, not enriching oxygen. The thrust of your article is a membrane that enriches the oxygen without any need to store oxygen in any form.



Can you imagine how big of a NOx bottle you would need for a locomotive in a 100% duty cycle application.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

Is there a difference in the oxygen that's used for welding vs oxygen sick people breath?

 

[Dl5treez]

Is there a difference in the oxygen that's used for welding vs oxygen sick people breath?

The short answer, no there isn't.



I asked my uncle who is an Air Liquide plant superintendent. He stated that there are many conflicting arguments about medical vs. industrial vs. aviation oxygen fills, grades, etc.



When oxygen is produced it is very pure, upwards of 99. 999% pure. It is possible to get 100% pure oxygen but the effort & cost would negate any benefits. Lower quality gas can be produced but even then it's about 99. 95% pure O2.



After it is produced is where the "grade" conflict starts. If you purchase oxygen for medical use, you are required by the FDA to have a doctor's prescription for the gas. If a tank or buyer does not specifically denote which type of oxygen they are buying, it defaults to medical grade, and the paperwork trail can be a nightmare to get sorted out.



Aviation oxygen requires a moisture-free "guarantee" of sorts per FAA regulations, so as there is no freeze up in the system at altitude. Aviation tanks are always put into a vacuum before they are filled, but that practice is pretty common for any oxygen fill. Coincidentally, there is hardly any moisture, if any at all, present in any oxygen tank or fill system due to the moisture causing rapid corrosion/rust of the storage tanks and associated fittings & valves, so to say moisture free oxygen is "aviation grade" is true, but not specifically for that reason.



Industrial oxygen is the same way. There is a common belief that industrial grade oxygen is dirty, in that it contains other gases, oils, dirt, etc. This is false. Any of those contaminants are extremely dangerous in the presence of oxygen and companies to go great lengths to keep that stuff out, period.



He told me there are countless stories, tales, etc about the different grades but aside from the paperwork, legal mumbo-gumbo, and the tank color & size, there are no differences between the gases.

 

[nickleinonen]

The short answer, no there isn't.

that is true, but the same does not hold true with N2O medical grade and the stuff used in performence application... however, if you have the connections, medical grade stuff works in the performance application [just not quite as much power potential with it] and is cheaper to get if you have the connections...