p-pump conversion...?

[your mom]

Its interesting for me, but I don't have the technical expertise to give a list. I remember that some of the things they spoke of in Canada during the process was way above average and not for the shadetree mechanic.

For me not being as mechanically oriented as most are on the TDR, I'm learning. While they were working on it at PDR I tried to keep my focus on my own business and would just give them harassing phone calls when I had the opportunity. I was not present during 99% of the work PDR did.

 

[F8LDOSE]

I have a complete high mileage 95 engine for sale, 2 g's. I think someone should buy it and then you'll have all your parts... . almost

 

[GiesJ]

Hey Andrew:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2405448069&category=33553



later

j

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by GiesJ

Hey Andrew:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2405448069&category=33553



later

j

now look, that is just darn right WRONG to tease a fellow like that.



Thanks for the dreams though!

 

[GiesJ]

Sorry bud, seems like a pretty good deal now, a 24v P7100 truck would rule...

I'm interested to see what all it would take to huck that VP44.

later

jason

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Too bad that guy won't sell it outright... . that eBay item is sold with the idea that you're gonna give him a P7100 as a core.



Matt

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by HoleshotHolset

Too bad that guy won't sell it outright... . that eBay item is sold with the idea that you're gonna give him a P7100 as a core.

think he would take a properly working VP44. :-laf

I'm interested to see what all it would take to huck that VP44.

Your not the only one. :{



Andrew

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Is there such a thing as a properly working VP44?



I shouldn't say that... . the 4-cylinder version of the VP44 is what gets me to (and hopefully from... ) work everyday!!



Matt

 

[Reb.B]

okay guys here's the deal. I've posted a couple of times how to do the conversion, so i'll skip all that, but i will tell u what i have come up with so far..... When u get tired of wondering when your Vp 44 is going to die and when u are tired of stupid sensors failing, then u want to go to the king of longevity, The P-Pump. Let me tell u it is easier and cost effective to buy a core 12v and build it up, then it is to do the 24v hopped up conversion. If u just want a p-pump on there and u don't care about a lot of performance and u have time then i guess the conversion is okay. I feal that if u are going to a mechanical inj. pump that u should do the same on the lift pump. In my opinion they are more reliable than electric. Truthfully thats the main problem with the 24v, the lift pump. Anyway, back to the conversion vs a 12v, the 12v is the best motor to hop up and here is why: The 12v head is less prone to cracking then the 24v. When going to larger valves in both heads its cheaper to do the 12v. U can get both motors to spin up to 6000 rpm, but it costs $2,000 dollars in springs, retainers, and arms on the 24v. The 12v is easy and cheap to get to 6000 rpm. Yes the 24v head will flow more, but the ported ATS manifolds can't flow as much so u are only as big as your smallest point. Its alot cheaper to get racing pistons for a 12v than a 24v and the wait is about 5 times as long for racing parts on the 24v. Also, nobody offers main studs for the 24v's and the rods don't oil as well on the 24's, and u can only run 3500 rpm safely on a 24v before u have a spring bind problem. ... . With that said, the 12v is still the King. I feal that in the next couple of years to come that those obsticles may be othercomed and maybe the 24v might have its place in glory.

 

[TxDieselKid]

Great post Reb, thanks.

 

[MD500E]

A friend of mine recently bought the blue bomb from Diesel Dynamics. Its the 2001 24V with the p-pump conversion that made 787hp on the dyno before blowing a turbo. I haven't had a lot of time to look it over so I am not sure what it is using for a lift pump. The conversion does look like a lot of work. There seems to be a lot of little details that can add up. However,I can tell you that the throttle response is amazing! It currently has a HX-40 (undersized) and it spools it up 2-3 times faster then my truck. While coasting down the road at 45mph, I floored it to pass another car and it broke the back tires loose almost instantly!!. (I nearly lost it)

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by MD500E

I floored it to pass another car and it broke the back tires loose almost instantly!!

'nuff said

 

[BFC]

Yep,



folk should drive drive a truck that has 550 HP and up and you may reconsider what is OK for everyday driving. Not sure I would want to deal with that kind of power any day, any road condition.

 

[your mom]

All the issues that R Ebel addressed are true in regard to the 24V. They do have the parts to overcome each issue, but they are expensive. Not too much call for a 24V valve train that will handle the rpm. But it is available.

My take on it is if you're going to do all the work for the conversion then you may as well do all the other stuff while the engine is torn down.

I balanced the crank, rods and pistons. Ceramiced the pistons and teflon the skirts. The pistons have been fly cut to handle that mitchell high lift cam and the head ported by Piers as far as he could take it. Then installed bronze valve guides. The valve train should be addressed while doing all this. It is currently available but very costly. And the head has to be removed to regrind the spring seats anyway.

If you o ring the head you'll want more holding power later so may as well go with the higher tensil strength studs the first time then stud the bottom and install the girdle. Bottom studs are obtainable, but not readily available.

The p-pump selection is a whole new can worms. I selected the Piers stupid pump. (160 race pump. ) Custom injector lines, then Mitchell twins. Still have an EGT problem because of fueling. My personal opinion is that you should not under turbo a truck like this. There's alot of fueling and if you want to drive it on the street there needs to be care taken with your p-pump tuning and injector selection. The Piers pump is very smooth. If your p-pump is too rough you could be dissatisfied. Some p-pumps may be more of an on/off switch if you go full race. Governor spring adjustments can only do so much and may defeat the whole intent of the pump. I have been told the 24V injectors have a slighly higher pop off pressure than the 12V injectors do so even smaller injectors are going to allow considerable fueling.

You gotta keep the wheels under the thing so I had a nice chromed set of custom DTT ladder bars installed with an all new DTT race transmission. The ladder bars help alot. Even when used to it, the truck can get squirrelly on wet pavement.

All in all I am very happy with my truck it is like a mini vacation every time I drive it. It pulls very smooth and has a great deal of useable rwhp. I am currently making a few changes that were certain to come up. But it is nothing that won't make it even better, and funner. Yes it was costly. But just think of all the money I made back reselling those timing and fueling boxes!

Its really funny to see the look on some ricers face when you pull up to the stop light next to him and hit the NOS purge valve. Mine shoots across the front of the truck at an angle from the fog light across the front grille.

 

[TxDieselKid]

WOW, great post once again Mr. David, thanks for all that info. If I hit the lotto Saturday then I think I'll copy and paste that list to my want list with Piers, only without the chrome.



Dl5treez,

Your probly right, but what fun is that? I have heard of several people a 24v head on a 12v motor for extra breathing also.



Andrew

 

[Jim Fulmer]

. If I hit the lotto Saturday



Cool if you hit it then maybe you can spot me some $ to get a pump, the pulmonary cash issue didn't come out as planned so it will be a while..... life goes on, can't be stupid and get into the money I give back!



Jim

 

[Greg Boardman-RIP]

Originally posted by TxDieselKid

Jeez, Just because I have had the self control to wait, and most of you couldn't, dont' mean you should give me a hard time about it.

Hey hey, Wait a minute. I waited too... ... ... 5 minutes:-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Okay, if a 12-valve is easier to turn into a 6000rpm beast... . then tell us how you do it.



Are we just talking balancing the reciprocating assy. to a much tighter tolerance than OEM? What else is involved?



The P7100 would obviously have some 'adjustments' made to it to turn 3000rpm... . without the popping/spitting from lack of fill time and timing.



NO flames intended... just trying to learn.



BTW, the lift pump for the 12-valve is the least of your worries... . they're about $180 right from Cummins... and they're good to about 500rwhp... . give or take an ounce. After 500rwhp then you have to get the bad boy of all fuel pumps - The Weldon.



Matt

 

[Pit Bull]

Just curious, how many VP44's do you need to kill before you hit the break even on this conversion?

 

[your mom]

Balancing is a good thing but to my knowledge not totally necessary. Balancing will decrease your chance of breakage though as you wind it up. Mostly its the fueling to turn the rpm. Problem is when you adjust the p-pump for that many rpm its very tight and just a little throttle is more like an on/off switch. It becomes very difficult to drive. I've heard of pump builders who have had their pumps returned after building them for extreme fueling simply because it was too much pump.

Joe Donnelly posted that he has reached over 600 rwhp with his p-pump and has not reworked the plungers or done anything to it exotic.

On another site some guys who really know their stuff were posting about what it takes to reach 600 rwhp with a p-pump and they came up with a figure of approx. 300-330 cc's per 1000 cycles. There are quite a few people with p-pumps that claim considerably higher numbers with less rwhp, but if they put it on the bench and tested it correctly, would find their pump fuels alot less than they were believing. Many of the numbers are projected, 300-330 cc pump is alot of fuel. The people who are creating 1200ccs of fueling is nothing less than phenomenal and you could never drive a truck like that on the street. Those kind of numbers do exist but like I said it is way too much pump.