Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) P-Pump Differences

[CBlack]

I have the 175hp pump on my truck. Is there a significant difference between it and the 215? Or is it something as simple as changing to the 215 injectors?

 

[bighammer]

I'm not certain, but I think there's a different diameter plunger and barrel inside.

That being said, there's plenty of power to be made with your 175 pump.

 

[CBlack]

Thanks. I am not looking for big power gains. Probably between 400-500 max, if that.

 

[hsmith]

You can make lots of power with your 175. Just seems that the 215 is pump of choice for most folks for mods and cheap power.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Your 1997 came stock with the 180 HP pump. The 215 HP pump has different helix cuts on 12 mm plungers (your pump also has 12 mm plungers), different camshaft, different governor spring setup, and miscellaneous small differences. You can get over 400 HP from the 175 and 180 HP pumps with a strong TST torque plate (#4 or #5) and bigger injectors like the 370 HP marine units or some of the aftermarket injectors.

 

[CBlack]

Thanks Joe!

That's what I was looking for. I keep reading about the stock 215 Bosch injectors and someone, somewhere said that was all the difference. I didn't think it was, and figured some other internal parts were different as well.

And, yes, the 180 pump is all I'll ever need.

 

[SDrake]

While we are at it what about the 165HP pumps on 94 auto-trans trucks. Will it drive the 215 injectors or should there be some pump mods? Decided to post here so in future the info will be in one place.



I have a #10 plate in mine and it smokes some at full throttle uphill in Overdrive, with boost around 20, so my limited knowledge says I need more air to burn the fuel I already have but before I go the turbo upgrade route I need to know where I stand with this pump.

 

[Texis]

I have a 97, so i suppose I have the 180 pump as well. What type HP numbers would a #4 plate and 370hp marine injectors make? Also, Could this set up push the EGT into the danger zone? would an EGT gauge be required, or would this the set up mild enough not to "heat things up"?



The Cummins 6BTA marine engines come in 250hp, 315hp, 330hp and 370hp. Would one of the other injector sizes be a better match to the #4 plate? (all have the Bosch P-pumps)



How do mods like this effect day-to-day mileage?



Thanks in advance.

 

[GAmes]

... ... ..... would an EGT gauge be required... ... ... .



How do mods like this effect day-to-day mileage?

Definitely. Gauges should be the first mod you do. Mileage will remain the same if you drive it just the same and resist using your new found power, like that is going to happen. :-laf

 

[Texis]

Being new to pumping up diesels, it would be nice to find a listing of power "add-ons" that detailed the output, risk and cost. Having played with the small block chevys for years I believe I am spoiled to the hot rodding info availible for those engines.

 

[champspa]

the 215 injectors and a no. 8 plate will give you 320hp that will be plenty to light that trucks tires up

 

[Texis]

Thanks, it appears the elbows and plates are sold together? or at least matched. When you say "215"... are you talking about 215hp, or is it a part number?



The intake appears to be a spot for HP as well. So, 215 injectors, #8 plate, elbow, hi-flow intake and a 4" exhaust sounds like a nice set up for longevity and HP on my 12 valve.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The 160 HP pump that you have on a 1994-1995 automatic Turbo Diesel will work fine with the 215 HP injectors. The #10 plate is not designed for that pump; you will probably be happier with a #6 or #5 TST Power Kit for 230 or 250 HP respectively with the stock injectors. The bigger injectors will also help considerably and easily take you to egt's that will justify a larger turbocharger, or at least a 16 sq. cm. exhaust housing on your stock turbo.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

First, 370 HP injectors and a strong TST Power Kit will definitely cause extremely high egt's, and you will need a larger turbocharger. Somewhere around 450 HP at the wheels will then be achievable. The TST boost elbow will work with any of their torque plates with the stock 12 sq. cm. exhaust housing, but you will not be using it with these modifications. You will need a larger turbocharger, and over about 320-350 HP depending on altitude you will not get enough reduction in egt from just the 16 sq. cm. exhaust housing on the stock turbo.



Second, the 370 HP injectors are well matched to our engines. Highway mileage will be similar but you may lose 1-2 mpg in town. The other marine injectors do not generally work as well for our 12-valveTurbo Diesels.



Third, after you work with and dyno some Turbo Diesels you will no longer say anything about the ease of hopping up a small block Chevy. It is far easier and cheaper to get very large power gains from the Cummins. People brag about 500 HP small block Chevies, but that is flywheel HP. Add 20% to the rear wheel HP numbers generally discussed for the Turbo Diesels, and compare costs. Then consider that the diesel will last far longer and is still a workhorse, not a garage queen.



Fourth, I wouldn't bother with an intake system yet. The stock airbox max'es out at about 550 HP, and I used the stock air intake horn at 800 HP.



These topics have been covered many times in the TDR, so I suggest you peruse back issues. Members can access issues online back to #44.

 

[SDrake]

Joe thanks for your paitient answering of these questions. I do try to read before posting but much of what I read is not qualified as to how it may apply to the 160 pump so I get lost sometimes. It feels like looking for a needle in a haystack



My #10 plate, I recall being touted as the best compromise with an auto transmission, will definitely get the exhaust temps too high if I pull to the max in the 1800RPM range in OD and shoot through the moon if down shift and keep it floored. So I drive by the temp guage and do not let it stay long in the 1200 deg range. And like I said there is black smoke so I am in the danger zone. I just do not let somebody else borrow my truck to tow with, no way.



Is that the problem you are referring to when you say the #10 plate is not designed for the 160 pump?



The symptoms I mentioned have not been much of a concern because I have to drive so the torque converter doesnt slip at around 18-20 lbs boost but now that the transmission is gone, I am about to order a Goerends transmission.



Maybe time for larger turbo or just a larger ring and a different plate. Without having to baby the transmission it would be easy to burn my engine.

 

[Texis]

Thanks Joe,

It is far easier and cheaper to get very large power gains from the Cummins.

This is extremely obvious! These engines can make some serious HP. I was referring to the amount of data that's out there. Plenty on this site, not too much elsewhere. I certainly was not comparing a Cummins to an SBC for power outputs!!



I'm just getting started figuring this Cummins build out, but that's the fun part. Based on what I'm reading I think about 300-325hp at the rear wheels should do it for me and not break the bank, or put the drive train at risk.



I would like to accomplish this with the OEM turbo if posible.