Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) P-pump mods?

[98slushbox]

Has anyone ever had p-pump smaller than a 215 put on a stand and calibrated and not done B&P's? If so, was there much of a difference? Was wondering if it would be worth the time and money to try it with a 175hp pump.

 

[Matthug]

Lots of times! The 175 is a pretty good pump.

 

[SDrake]

Related Question I hope is not off thread

What is B&P's? And can anyone tell me what to expect from a 160 pump. I want to put something on the order of Bosh 215"s or DD stage 2"s. My truck is running great. The GSK3 kit got rid of a bucking and jumping when going in to lockup at 45MPH but I know that is all contingent on a delicate balance. I don't want more power at the expense of getting my bucking broncho back.



I have read somewhere that sometimes putting bigger injectors requires work on the pump such as delivery valve upgrades but I can't get a handle on how much goes with how much. I want to stay within the limits of my stock turbo.

 

[JFaughn]

Tagging on to see the replys , but will need the auto trans 1st.

 

[Matthug]

Delivery valves are no big deal, it's not like an internal pump mod. It's a very good upgrade for 94-95 trucks as they have 131 DV's stock and 96-98's have 181's. Most guys go with bosch 191's, probably about a 40-50 HP upgrade if you're atleast doing 300 RWHP already with 131's. I'm going with 181's from a stock truck, bought them used but saved about $100 doing so for the minimal gain from 181's to 191's.

The majority of the reason a truck will shutter is if you install marine injectors with the small 131 DV's. Mine shutters a little with light throttle low RPM's, but I only have 300 marine injectors I didn't go with the 370's like most do. They would probably buck even more. But anyway the bigger DV's are always a good idea in a 94-95 truck, they really smooth out things.

 

[Dual EE]

SDrake,

I ran 300 injectors and 181 dv's with the 160 pump. Stock turbo/12 did fairly good keeping up w/EGT's. The comb worked great for me even towing 7k around. With this combo I dyno'd (mustang) 270/755.



When I added the 370's the stock turbo was no longer able to keep up w/the EGT's in my opinion. Just got too hot too fast. This is when the Dodgezilla came in. The EGT's are a lot more controllable now.



Here are some threads on my experiences... .

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118746

https://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140454

 

[98slushbox]

Lots of times! The 175 is a pretty good pump.

Was it a large increase after getting back from getting it tuned on the pump stand? Curious to see if one done like that and maybe a good set of inj. and larger lines would spool a pretty large set of twins very well? I'm running a B-1 now with my 175 pump with a 4gsk and laser cut dv's, but i'm cleaning the smoke right up. I'm gonna be building a set of twins in the near future and wondered if i could get away with having my pump tuned on a stand? thanks

 

[JDailey]

The biggest downfall to the 160/175 pumps is the cam.

 

[SDrake]

Thanks Dual EE -- but if you can help with one more question please. Were the 181 delivery valves needed to make it run smooth or was that for the added power. Related question, which would you do first, the valves or the injectors, or do you pretty much need to do both at the same time?



JDaileys info about the 160 cam is why I have chosen not to go for the big power the rest of you guys talk about. Too much money to spend, having to mod the pump bafore I even start.





OOP's , Dual EE I should have read the threads you gave first, my apology in advance if they answered these questions.



Thanks everyone.

 

[Dual EE]

SDrake,

I am not sure if the dv's would have been required for the 300's or 370's. I did the 181 dv's first. It seems everyone's truck is set up a little different, so try the injectors first and see were you are.



Check your local diesel shops or the classifieds here for used parts. All of my engine performance mods were used and a lot cheaper than new. My transmission is the only thing I didn't skimp on.

 

[Matthug]

Some people complain about the shutter with the stock injectors! The 131 DV's are junk, plain and simple. I'd do the DV's first.

Jdailey- You are referring to the cam in the pump right? And not the cam in the engine, just making sure.

 

[tshort]

I don't know what you decided to do, but I had City Diesel in Knoxville pull my pump on my old 95, and it really did make a huge difference. :-laf They put in a 3k GSK and reused my #5, man it really woke it up. Didn't change DV's or injectors and ran the stock turbo with the boost elbow, that thing flat out ran. Wish I still had it though :{

Ryan

 

[SDrake]

Matthug -- Yes I was talking about the pump cam.



I can confirm that my stock truck bucked. It makes sense that some kind of unevenness in the fuel delivery to individual cylinders at low speeds was driving the govenor crazy. It makes sense that delivery valves would change the equation. Since delivery valves are cheeper I think I will change them first. I am doing one thing at a time because of money and also to experience for a while the effect of the individual changes.



Dual EE -- Thanks. The fact that you did yours first tells me that path is workable and I am not necessarily looking for the absolute best path, just want to avoid taking a step that makes the truck unbearable.



tshort -- What did City Diesel do to your pump. I put the GSK3 kit in already. Same with the #10 plate. And the delivery valves can be done on the truck. What did they pull it for?

 

[DPS]

We just had a 160 pump gone through and it came back 530cc@4500 rpm with room to go to 5250rpm if necessary. This was with stock plungers and barrels. Using a formula of 1. 4hp per cc of fuel for an over fueled motor this should be no problem getting over 650hp with a 160 pump. The secret is knowing how to tune them.



Josh

 

[tshort]

I can't tell you what they did, I didn't ask. Whatever they did, they did it right though.

 

[tshort]

With everything they charged me $800 to pull it, put it on the bench and whatever else they do.

Ryan

 

[98slushbox]

We just had a 160 pump gone through and it came back 530cc@4500 rpm with room to go to 5250rpm if necessary. This was with stock plungers and barrels. Using a formula of 1. 4hp per cc of fuel for an over fueled motor this should be no problem getting over 650hp with a 160 pump. The secret is knowing how to tune them.



Josh

Thats pretty much what i was wondering. If i can get enough fuel out of my pump now, i figured there would be no sense in purchasing a 215 then spending the same amount turning it up as i would with mine now. thanks

Lance

 

[RyanB]

I just got my built 215 pump back. It has a custom ground cam, 13mm P&B's, rack mods, custom plate, 191 DV's, AFC mods, 5GSK with lightend govenor.

When they put it on the bench of Friday fully tuned and wide open it pulled to 5400RPM and had over 950cc's/1000 strokes! I then had them turn it down for the time being seeing I have a rev limit in place of 4500rpm and have room to grow cc wise next year if I want. The pump detuned now on the bench ran up to 4625 rpm and cc's were set to 650cc's/1000 strokes.



Hopefully those figures make sense... in the past I have heard mixed things about the value of CC's from different shops. The funny thing was when I was there they put it on the little bench first figuring it would be enough to turn it and then figured no way. Put it on the large bench that they test the big Genset pumps/indutrial pumps with and it made it scream! he said not often do they get to wind a pump up to those rpms!!!!



For now I am more than happy with the detuned pump and will suite my turbo/air needs for now

 

[bluthndr]

If you want to stay with a stock turbo your pump needs not be anywhere near a stand/bench. With 191 DVs and 370s & my 160 pump I could peg the pyro with 32 psi before I even hit 2500 RPM (maybe 2000) in first gear. That was with wide open exhaust and intake (AFE)



All that and it didn't even smoke that heavy (like some I've seen). I did get a little chop at 1200 RPM to about 1300 rpm, but not terrible. It pulled 325/750 on Dunbar's dyno with the stock (131) dvs... I personally don't think you should take the pump off until you start losing your ability to reason like the rest of us...

 

[JAmos]

Does anyone have any part numbers for a good cam for a 160 pump? I'm wanting to get my pump tuned and am really interested in having a good cam put in to make a nice running pump.



Jordan