Here I am

P0193 wont start and rough idle "update" HELP

Attention: TDR Forum Junkies
To the point: Click this link and check out the Front Page News story(ies) where we are tracking the introduction of the 2025 Ram HD trucks.

Thanks, TDR Staff

Any one know anything about luk clutches

They want another $100.00 (HELP)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Ryecreek,if you need phone support ,I will help 763-228-7121 , It will take less than 15 minutes Once the lines are removed, also 1 step at a time, at this point you don't need the return rates UNTIL you check everything else 1st. call anytime
 
twest thanks i may be taking you up and ggreed what you said i just removed to rear eng lift eye (for access) and washed everything good i do have a diesel leak dripping off bellhousing i'm gonna:

wait for it to dry

try to start(won't right now) and check for obvious leaks

remove rail and lines

check for loose connector tube retainer of none loosen and retourque them all

assemble and retry

would a return leak (fitting@ back of head) cause a no start in wouldn't think so but i've been wrong this far
 
I had worked on a truck that had a long crank time but ran fine once fired... had a leak from the return line at the back of the head. Removed the line and found a crack in it. When I took the line of, I could tell it had been bound up when installed. I put a new line on it, but loosened the mounting bolts on the rail so it would move a little bit to get the line on without any tension. When I loosened the bolts, the rail moved a hair. I'd suggest loosening the rail bolts to relieve any tension on your lines if you will be removing any of them. I'm guessing this could be a cause of injector line cracking as well...



This may be an issue with your truck, but this truck I fixed never failed to start, just a long crank. Good luck
 
Last edited:
SECTION D - ENGINE WILL NOT START / HARD TO START:

Possible Causes

Battery voltage

Starting Accessories

Fuel Supply (Low Pressure) System

Fuel Injection (High Pressure) System

Fuel Return

Air Intake System

Other Vehicle Systems

Base Engine

14-003-06 REV. A -8-

Perform the Pre-Diagnostic Troubleshooting Procedure before proceeding.

1. DTC / Product Improvement: Check for any service bulletins related to the

customer's concern or Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) present. Follow appropriate

guidelines in the diagnostic procedures outlined in TechCONNECT. Is the vehicle

repaired?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #17.

b. No >> Go to Step #2.

2. Verify Battery Voltage: Measure the battery voltage and load capability. Is the

battery voltage sufficient?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #3.

b. No >> Repair low battery voltage condition. Go to Step #17.

3. Verify Starting Accessories: Verify the ignition switch, vehicle theft system, starter,

intake manifold grid heater, and fuel heater are functioning properly. Are all starting

accessories functioning properly?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #4.

b. No >> Repair or replace accessories as necessary >> Go to Step #17.

4. Check the supply fuel in the vehicle: Verify fuel level in the fuel tank. Also verify fuel

quality. Remove, inspect and replace the fuel filter (if necessary). Investigate for

evidence of fuel contamination and improper fuel type. Refer to the vehicle owners

manual fuel requirements section. Is the fuel quality within specification?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #5.

b. No >> Follow fuel contamination process (drain contaminated fuel, replace

damaged components, fill with proper fuel). >> Go to Step #17.

5. Verify complaint: Using the appropriate scan tool log the fuel pressure set point and

actual fuel pressure. Verify the rail pressure versus set point, this can be done while

cranking or with the engine idling. A good system will have actual fuel pressure that is

+/- 500 PSI from the set pressure. (Example: If the fuel pressure set point at idle is

6500 PSI, the actual fuel pressure on a good system is expected to be between 6000 -

7000 PSI). Does the actual fuel rail pressure meet the set fuel pressure +/- 500

PSI?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #6.

b. No >> Go to Step #9.

6. Check the engine oil level: Check the engine oil level. Is the engine oil level over

filled?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #7.

b. No >> Go to Step #8.

7. Remove the engine valve cover: Inspect for injectors leaking fuel into the valve train

area while cranking the engine. If the engine will start and idle, actuate the Fuel

Pressure Override Test on the appropriate scan tool NOTE: This feature is not

available on 2003 MY vehicles. Use the fuel manifold blocking tool, Miller special tool

#9011, to isolate suspected leaking injectors. If the leak is still present with the

suspected injector isolated, remove the injector and inspect the O-ring on the body of

the injector for cuts or damage. Inspect the injector bore for burrs or other cause for a

cut O-ring. Correct the cause of the damaged O-ring and replace the O-ring. Use

copper sealing gasket when reinstalling the injector. Refer to the detailed removal and

installation procedures available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 14 - Fuel

System > Fuel Injection > Fuel Injector. Are there any leaking injectors?

a. Yes >> Replace the leaky injector(s). Refer to the detailed removal and installation

procedures available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 14 - Fuel System

> Fuel Injection > Fuel Injector. >> Go to Step #17.

b. No >> Determine the source of fuel/coolant/other substance in the crankcase

causing the system to be over full. Repair as necessary. >> Go to Step #17.

-9- 14-003-06 REV. A

8. Check the fuel pressure limiting valve: Perform the “Checking Pressure Limiting

Valve On The Fuel Rail For Internal Leaks” test. Perform the existing diagnostic

procedure available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 9 - Engine >

Diagnosis and Testing. No leakage is expected while cranking or while at idle speed.

Does the pressure limiting valve leak internally?

a. Yes >> Replace the fuel pressure limiting valve. - Refer to the detailed service

information available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 14 - Fuel System

> Fuel Delivery > Fuel Pressure Regulator. >> Go to Step #17.

b. No >> Go to Step #9.

9. Test for high injector return flow: Refer to the detailed diagnostic information

available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 9 - Engine, Diagnosis and

Testing > Injector Return Flow Test. Do the injectors pass the “Injector Return

Flow Test”?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #11.

b. No >> Go to Step #10.

NOTE: Torque all High Pressure Connector (HPC) nuts to the correct torque and

retest. Refer to the detailed service information available in TechCONNECT

under: Service Info tab > 14 - Fuel System > Fuel Injection > Fuel Injector.

NOTE: Test should be repeated to confirm measurements.

10. If the injector return from any cylinder(s) is deemed excessive:

a. Check HPC tip for damage, replace HPC if damaged. Refer to the detailed service

information available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 14 - Fuel System

> Fuel Injection > Fuel Injector > Removal/Installation. >> Go to Step #17.

b. If HPC tip is undamaged, replace the injector and HPC. Refer to the detailed service

information available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 14 - Fuel System

> Fuel Injection > Fuel Injector > Removal/Installation. >> Verify that a quality fuel

filter is used. >> Go to Step #17.

11. Verify proper low pressure fuel supply to the high pressure pump: Perform the

appropriate fuel supply system flow test. NOTE: This procedure can be slightly

different depending on if the vehicle has an engine-mounted transfer pump or

the in-tank transfer pump. In a good low pressure fuel system, fuel flow of 560 mL in

10 seconds or better is expected for model year 2003 and early 2004 vehicles. In a

good low pressure fuel system, fuel flow of 590 mL in 10 seconds or better is expected

for model year late 2004 through 2007 vehicles. Be sure there is no air in the system.

Is the low pressure fuel supply volume sufficient?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #12.

b. No >> Repair the low pressure fuel supply system. Vehicles equipped with an in

tank fuel pump: Refer to the detailed diagnostic information available in

TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 9 - Engine > Diagnosis & Testing >

In-Tank Fuel Lift Pump Flow/Diagnostic Test Procedure. Vehicles equipped with

an engine mounted fuel transfer pump: Refer to the detailed diagnostic

information available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > Diagnostics tab,

Powertrain Gas, Driveability Diesel, Fuel Lift Pump Flow And Inlet Restriction Test

>> Go to Step #17.

14-003-06 REV. A -10-

12. Verify high pressure pump output volume: Remove the high pressure fuel line from

the high pressure pump outlet port to the fuel rail. Connect a suitable hose to the high

pressure outlet port of the high pressure pump and route it to a graduated container.

Disconnect the Electronic Fuel Control Actuator. Crank the engine until fuel exits the

hose. NOTE: With the discharge line routed to atmosphere, fuel will discharge at

0 PSI. Crank the engine for three 10 second intervals, pausing to allow the starter to

cool between each crank event. High pressure pump output volume must be greater

than 70 mL in 30 seconds. Is the high pressure pump output flow sufficient?

a. Yes >> Go to Step #13.

b. No >> Replace the high pressure pump. Refer to the detailed service information

available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 14 - Fuel System > Fuel

Injection > Fuel Injection Pump. >> Go to Step #17.

13. Fuel Return: Check for kinked or restricted fuel return lines. Check the fuel tank

venting. Where any problems found in the Fuel Return system?

a. Yes >> Repair as necessary. >> Go to Step #17.

b. No >> Go to Step #14.

14. Intake/Exhaust Systems: Check for inlet restriction, inspect air filter for excessive

dirt/debris. Verify air intake tubes and hoses are not kinked or restricted. Check for

charge air cooler air system leaks. Perform the “INTAKE AIR SYSTEM PRESSURE

TEST - DIESEL”. Refer to the detailed service information available in TechCONNECT

under: Service Info tab > 11 - Exhaust System > Turbocharger System > Turbocharger

> Inspection. Inspect the Turbocharger for excessive compressor wheel movement

and proper waste gate operation. Check for exhaust restriction. Check for kinked or

blocked exhaust pipes. Verify proper exhaust brake operation (if equipped). Were any

issues found with the Intake/Exhaust Systems?

a. Yes >> Repair as necessary. >> Go to Step #17.

b. No >> Go to Step #15.

15. Other Vehicle Systems: Verify proper operation of the Transmission Clutch. Verify

proper operation of the Transmission. Verify proper operation of the Vehicle brakes

(check for dragging). Verify proper operation of the Cooling fan operation cycle time.

Verify proper operation of the Engine driven accessories. Were any issues found

with the Other Vehicle Systems?

a. Yes >> Repair as necessary. >> Go to Step #17.

b. No >> Go to Step #16.

16. Base Engine: Check for internal engine damage. Valve lash settings, engine

compression, cylinder leak down, etc. Were any issues found with the Base

Engine?

a. Yes >> Repair as necessary. >> Go to Step #17.

b. No >> Go to Step #17.

17. Repair Complete: Perform Powertrain Verification Test VER - 1 (Diesel). Refer to the

detailed service information available in TechCONNECT under: Service Info tab > 8 -

Electrical/Electronic Control Modules/Engine Control Module > Diagnosis And Testing.
 
Kwilkinson ya hit the nail on the head that is what i just found!!!

mopartech thank very much

i just did the following with a no start:

checked for leaks cranking (NONE)

pulled rail assembly inspected no prob

removed connector tubes re o-ringed, cleaned mounting points (flanges) w/1500 grit cleaned them well

reinstalled and tourqued everything per spec

truck started after lonnnnngggg crank (1-15sec. 1 20+sec. ) checked for leak none except for return line @back of head leaking like a siv. feels like a banjo but ya cant see it so the ???

it this the issue?

what is the fitting to repair the leak banjo ect.

thanks again maopartech
 
Last edited:
fixed return leak went through all connectors re-oring while they were out truck started hard drove 100mi barely got it refired drove 1/2 mile then miss spit/sputter almost died cel on barely idled made it home parked in the shop pulled codes and the p0193 is back truck won't start unpulgged ez cleared codes and still won't start.

the only guess i have left is ez cracked an injector or injector(s) failed try to cap relief again here in a minute to narrow that out

BTW TWest i took you up and left you a mess.
 
pulled the injectors and taking them to the valley in am have a guy i know i know gonna test them and he has replacements for any that are bad

what i think is one is blowing return cause i notices (after pulling injectors) a huge puddle of diesel after a little check the return a rear of head is the leaker after just resealing banjo. gonna get a new banjo and seals too just in case cheap insurance

my guess i an injector is really blasting through the return that is alot of pressure or maybe the line is plugged but ill do inj. first since they are out

TWest thanks again if ya think i'm going wrong let me know little to call ya now thanks
 
Ryecreek, if you Need sensors or Injection parts I have good used parts at a small Fraction of new. . this is not a sales post. . it to help someone that has had allot of bad luck. .
 
well here is the end to this thread

took my injector in and what do ya know they are all bad 3 are toast won't make psi at all other 3 are leaking down can;t afford all 6 so do the 3 $1000 works now. started fine no leaks guess i just didn't want to join the injector club, know wonder the return was blowing fuel ya should have seen the 3 bad inj. blow fuel out the return when they were blasting fuel out other 3 leaked down slow he said it's a matter of time for them

thanks to everybody for all the help this is DONE just need another $1000 for 3 more
 
mopartech yes stock

is that rebuilt injectors or nozzles. all the rebuilt injectorts i have seen on the net were $450-$500 his were $325 and he tested them for me. did i get taken
 
no I have ordered many sets when I was working at the dealership there is a six pack for like 800 bucks, all reman. they were expensive when they first came out but now that they have a bunch of remans the price has dropped
 
no I have ordered many sets when I was working at the dealership there is a six pack for like 800 bucks, all reman. they were expensive when they first came out but now that they have a bunch of remans the price has dropped



Okay, I didn't realize the dealer offered remans - thought you were talking NEW injectors.



Gary
 
I just talked with my parts man at Dodge. The six packs have now been discontinued. Too good a deal for the consumer apparently. They now offer reman single units for $435.
 
I'm getting the same P0193 code along with the bad miss, especially under any type of load - even free-revving.



This all started after I changed my clutch today. I'm thinking that I might have pulled some wires inadvertently.



I followed the procedure that mopartech posted and so far it basically fails every test.



In your diagnostic experience where is the best place to look for faulty or shorted connections? At the ECM C1 connector? The rail harness connector has all the wires in place.



Also getting P0541 code - intake air heater. I notice the 5 volt supply for the #1 intake air heater and for the fuel rail pressure sensor come from the same splice S173.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top