P2262 and Contaminated Fuel. Please help.

[MattMartin]

All,



I have fallen victim to P2262 and am a little curious about the possible causes. I originally had the code appear in late October. The dealer then determined the fuel in the oil and the turbo failure were due to fuel contamination. To get a new turbo, the dealer said I had to have the 67. 5k mile service done (because of engine hours) to clean the EGR and change the crankcase filter. That work was done as well as a fuel tank cleaning, oil change, and fuel filter change.



The problem has now returned and a different dealer seems to want to go down that same route (clean the tanks and do a CRC injector flush). Is it possible that contaminated fuel can lead to the issues I'm seeing (P2262 and oil way over full)? I'm not that mechanically inclined, but isn't that what a fuel filter is for? I should also mention that the latest dealer had the technician run a return test on the injectors twice. The first time, the results showed double the amount of returned fuel. The second time, the results were in spec. What gives?



I really want to get my truck back on the road and don't want to be taken advantage of by the dealership not wanting to pay for the warranty work. It seems to me that they are just saying fuel contamination without any real proof that is the cause. Can anyone help?



I should also mention that my truck is an 08 2500 6. 7 4x4 with 54k miles and is completely stock. Please help.

 

[MattMartin]

I should also mention that I have always bought fuel from the bigger, more reputable companies... Valero or Loves. In addition, I have run fuel additive about every other tank since I have owned the truck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[sag2]

There are not too many dealers doing the CRC clean as I understand it is still in the early development stages, but I have seen good results when I have used it. So I understand, did the first dealer replace the turbo or just clean the turbo, clean up the fuel system and run the CRC clean?

Are you located in the southwest?

 

[HBarlow]

Matt,

You should have been reading posts in this forum of the TDR since you bought your truck. Lot's of related discussion has appeared here. I would recommend you go back and read all of the old threads and posts here in the ISB6. 7 forum.

I am not qualified to address the issue of quantity or percentage of returned fuel, maybe one of our member Cummins techs will discuss that, but it sounds bogus to me.

I suspect you were screwed without even a small kiss on the cheek by the first dealer and the second one is setting you up for another screwing.

Fuel contamination in the crankcase has been reported by several ISB6. 7 pickup owners, more commonly owners of '07. 5 models, and seems to be an unwanted byproduct of the federally mandated emissions controls and, perhaps, contributed to by the way the truck is used. Trucks used as grocery getters meaning lots of short trips with frequent starts probably are more likely to experience this problem. Long trips with fewer start ups are more likely to reduce fuel contamination and allow burn off.

Normally, if fuel in oil contamination caused a turbo failure, repairs should have been covered under warranty. Likewise if the EGR valve was sooted up. From memory, I think the crankcase vent filter is not a required service until 75,000 miles. There should not have been a 67,500 mile service forced on you IMO.

If fuel contamination was caused by poor quality or contaminated fuel, repairs are not covered by Dodge under warranty. The dealer would have been replacing injectors, injection pump, and cleaning fuel lines and fuel tank at your expense.

Matt, I don't mean to be rude or embarrass you but an owner often has to be sufficiently knowledgeable about the new trucks with sophisticated fuel injection and emissions controls to recognize bs when he is handed a shovel full of it by a dealer's service writer. Those guys are there to sell you services requiring hours of shop labor. Some service writers were selling vacuum cleaners in their previous job and don't really know squat about the trucks but will tell you anything you're willing to believe and pay for.

 

[MattMartin]

Sag2,

The first dealer cleaned the fuel tank only, changed the fuel filter, and changed the oil, but did not do the CRC clean. In addition, they put a brand new turbo on.

 

[MattMartin]

Harvey,

I have been reading the 6. 7 threads off and on since I have owned the truck (about a year and a half). I recall some mention of fuel contamination in the past, but I cannot remember whether or not it was associated with the P2262 error code and high oil levels. I do expect that the fuel contamination is somewhat of a load of crap, but what I don't know is exactly what to fire back with when they feed me that load. This is my first diesel and I'm not as knowledgable with the fuel/emission systems as some other guys. I am trying to learn about them and how to fire back. That is why I am here.

From what I have researched, the best I can come up with is some sort of an injector problem. Wouldn't the return test on the injectors confirm or rule out this?

 

[MattMartin]

I forgot to mention that I am in Oklahoma.

 

[Hoefler]

What part of Oklahoma? If you are not to far from Springfield Mo. , it would be worth the trip to see their service department. They have a top notch diesel tech and has taken care of issues I have had that other dealers were unable to correct. That is why I have bought 2 trucks from them so far.

 

[MattMartin]

Hoefler,



I'm in Oklahoma City... about 5 hours from Springfield according to Google Maps. If I don't have any luck with the second dealer here, I might have to see about taking it somewhere else. Do you have a contact there at the dealership?

 

[firemansdiesel]

The P2262 is the turbo death code. Usually results of sooting up and the vanes not able to slide. Fuel contamination has nothing to do w/ it (as far as I know). If you had fuel contamination, usually the truck will idle rough, sputter when driving, smoking and codes (not the P2262).

If the procedures are still the same, the turbo will be tapped and clean. If the code comes back then they will replace it w/ a new turbo. Also a new updated flash if you have not gotten the latest.

 

[MattMartin]

James,



Thats what I don't understand fully... how can a P2262 be related to bad fuel? What I have been told by the dealer is that the contaminated fuel can cause injector problems, leading to oil over fill, leading to the P2262 code and possibly a turbo failure. Does that even make sense? I don't really follow it, but I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable with this stuff.

 

[HBarlow]

Harvey,

I have been reading the 6. 7 threads off and on since I have owned the truck (about a year and a half). I recall some mention of fuel contamination in the past, but I cannot remember whether or not it was associated with the P2262 error code and high oil levels. I do expect that the fuel contamination is somewhat of a load of crap, but what I don't know is exactly what to fire back with when they feed me that load. This is my first diesel and I'm not as knowledgable with the fuel/emission systems as some other guys. I am trying to learn about them and how to fire back. That is why I am here.

From what I have researched, the best I can come up with is some sort of an injector problem. Wouldn't the return test on the injectors confirm or rule out this?

Matt,

I didn't know anything about turbodiesel engines in June '01 when I bought my first one either. Years of driving them, reading here, and talking to other members has provided me with at least a basic understanding.

There are several TDR members who have identified themselves as Dodge dealer Cummins techs and many other members who are very knowledgeable who post here. I believe the collective members here know more about Cummins engines in Dodge Rams than most dealer techs in the US or Canada. They freely answer questions and offer advice here. Keep reading and asking questions, particularly before you accept the advice or statements of a dealership service writer.

The TDR members who are actually Dodge dealer techs are probably reluctant to tell you the dealer who blamed dirty fuel for a bad turbo cheated you but I owe no similar loyalty to the dealer network. I believe you were misinformed by an untrained dealer tech or cheated.

I haven't needed diagnosis or repair on my '08 so haven't been back but the Dodge dealer in Gainesville, TX, Glen Polk Autoplex, did have a Level IV trained and certified Cummins tech in their service department. Gainesville is not very far from OKC. Glen Polk is my dealer of choice even though they are 300 miles from my home.

 

[NIsaacs]

I should also mention that I have always bought fuel from the bigger, more reputable companies... Valero or Loves. In addition, I have run fuel additive about every other tank since I have owned the truck. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The Cummins only requires good, clean fuel. Additives are not necessary. Sometimes we are bad about this syndrome; "if a little is good"... . I am not saying this relates, just sayin... ...



Nick

 

[CUMMINZ]

TSB 18-020-10 deals with P2262 as well as other issues related to fuel.

 

[sag2]

If you got contaminated fuel and it got past the filter, it causes the injectors to "stick" and over fuel, in turn causing sooting and the P2262. If your in OK, you tend to have more dirt in the fuel than we do (Texas or SW trucks seem to have the most problems with dirt, where Washington or NW trucks have more trouble with water) so keeping the filler neck clean and adding the vent hose extension or filter is a good idea.

If your dealer says contaminated fuel this time, have him drop the tank with you there. You should have very little debris (no truck will be perfectly clean) or water, and the lift pump bowl should be nice and clean when removed. If the pull it and it's clean, you should not have to pay. If it's clean, add the CRC, run it through 4 to 5 fuel pressure override sequences, then drive it hard for a few miles. If the P2262 returns your dealer is overlooking something.

 

[MattMartin]

A little bit of an update - I went by the dealer today and watched as they pulled some fresh samples. It indeed does look like there are specs of something floating around in both the sample pulled from the tank and the sample pulled after the filter (before the pump). They are tiny specs but can be seen by the naked eye with the help of a flashlight. Still, I don't understand how this stuff could get past the filter. Anyone?

 

[sag2]

OK, if you get enough crap in the tank the filter "face loads" with debris. I forget how many grams they will hold before they plug, but it is quite a bit. Once the filter plugs the lift pump is pushing and the CP3 is pulling a vacuum on the filter and it eventually breaches the media with the forces working from both sides. If you didn't have a lift pump it would die as soon as the filter plugged, but with pressure and vacuum working on it the filter eventually passes the debris. Just as you noticed the debris is very small, but yet plenty large enough to do damage. The edge filters in the connector tubes are there to break up the last of the debris into more manageable pieces, but does not work like a filter.

 

[Jim W]

That is why I am using two filters. I have the updated stock fiter and then use a 2 MiCRON filter after the stock fiter but before the CP3. They are both changed at 10 K miles. I have the GDP fiter attachment on my truck. Here is the link: Glacier Diesel Power



Jim

 

[MattMartin]

Thanks, Jim. I'll look into installing some additional filtration on my truck. In my situation, my insurance company is going to pay for the repairs (minus the deductible) required from the "fuel contamination", but honestly I don't think the fuel is "contaminated". In addition, it bothers me that the dealership will not do the work to find the actual cause of failure until I pay them for a chemical flush to clean the entire fuel system.

 

[Wygate]

OK, if you get enough crap in the tank the filter "face loads" with debris. I forget how many grams they will hold before they plug, but it is quite a bit. Once the filter plugs the lift pump is pushing and the CP3 is pulling a vacuum on the filter and it eventually breaches the media with the forces working from both sides. If you didn't have a lift pump it would die as soon as the filter plugged, but with pressure and vacuum working on it the filter eventually passes the debris. Just as you noticed the debris is very small, but yet plenty large enough to do damage. The edge filters in the connector tubes are there to break up the last of the debris into more manageable pieces, but does not work like a filter.

Matt,

I had exactly what Sag and you are describing happen to me, minus the codes (I never got any codes). It cost my ins co $14,000, and me an entire month, I got an entire new fuel sys and had the turbo and DPF cleaned. This was with only 6k on the clock. If you need any help I will be glad, it was an up hill battle with my INS and Chrysler. I now have a FASS 95 w/ a water sep and stock filter still in place. No more issues and 25k on her now.