P7100 installation on a 24 Valve

[Briar Hopper]

I'm sure it's been asked before, but a search in the forums failed to turn it up...
What all has to be changed, besides the fuel lines?
How do you get around the electronic crap that operates the dashboard instruments?
Anybody actually do this conversion? If you have, but don't want it made public, can you email me a few details?

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Tom
Secretary of the Great Lakes Turbo Diesel Registry GLTDR B. A. D. Boys

 

[ynot]

Just in case nobody E'd you, front cover, upper gear train, adapter manifold for pump to cover (have to have one made), fuel lines, 98 dash panel (for gauges), lotta work and LOTTA power... T

 

[Briar Hopper]

Thanks, ynott, no, no email so far on this one...
No wonder it doesn't seem to be a common thing... just fooling with the dash electrics is enough to scare most people off. Fabricating a cover shouldn't be too big of a deal, I have a fully equipped machine shop at work...

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

You need the following:
1. aluminum gear housing because the P pump has a different hole/bolt pattern
2. pump gear, as the Morse taper is a different size (bigger on the P)
3. custom made high pressure lines
4. cheater box so the ecm thinks there is still a VP44 for it to talk to #ad
[Lawrence (DD) said he can make up one, as he is thinking about this conversion himself]
5. mount supports for the heavier and longer P pump
6. relocate the fuel filter toward the rear due to P pump length
7. high pressure lift pump--with can be either (a) Holley or equivalent electric, or (b) if your block has the hole in the side, you can use a mechanical pump if you change to a 12 vale camshaft--24 valve cams don't have a lift pump lobe on them.
8. feed lines and return lines for the P pump and new lift pump
9. AFAIK, that is all and I think the P pump will clear the head casting. A relief for the overflow valve may be needed, but I haven't checked. I have seen P pumps on 24 valve engines, so I know the head can be made to clear the pump somehow [as a properly valved cousin, I put the emphasis on the pump, and the head should clear the mighty P pump #ad
--gotta establish priorities #ad
]
10. be darn sure you get the right p pump, meaning the 215 hp version or a custom made one that is verified as bigger. The "small" p pumps off the 160 and 180 hp engines won't do you any good for hp, just reliability.

 

[DSiemens]

What's the difference between the 160/175HP pumps and the 215 pumps. Are they not both P7100 with different delivery valves?

 

[Briar Hopper]

Thanks, Joe ! printing for future reference... Tell Lawrence to hurry up, #ad
I need a Vegas vacation, BAD, too much overtime here. #ad
Perhaps the slickest thing DD could do would be to have the necessary covers & pieces made, and everything marketed in kit form(minus the pump, those are easy to come by)... sold for "off-road" use only of course #ad

 

[Todd G]

Wouldn't it be easier to put a 24 valve head on a 12 valve motor? No computers or major mods to the pump or motor.

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1995 Ram 2500,SLT,5-spd,4. 10,std cab,4X4,215 injectors,Banks Powerpack,boost and pyro guages,gutted CAT,33"/16. 5 BFG AT's,Outdoorsman cap,Reese Titan V hitch

 

[Briar Hopper]

Not an option for me, the one I have is NEW, 36K miles. Rather replace 5 VP44 skunk pumps over it's lifetime,than replace the block !
Not a bad idea though, if you can find a good used 12 valve, hot rod it for the track.

------------------
Tom
Secretary of the Great Lakes Turbo Diesel Registry GLTDR B. A. D. Boys

 

[Todd G]

OK, what forum would I post in if I have a 12 valve pump with a 24 valve head? I wonder what kind of numbers you could get with twin-turbos, Piers' pump and a 24 valve head. Add propane and nitros if needed. EGAD!

 

[My 6 Eats V8's Old File]

thats why I want it to. more flow baby.

 

[HVAC]

I think your right Todd. Start with a 12v engine and change the pistons. Then bolt on a 24v head.
--------------------------------------------
Nowel/Performance Diesel

 

[Briar Hopper]

Some additional observations:
A "cheater box" as envisioned by Lawrence would eliminate the necessity of changing to a 98 dash,thereby saving you the nightmares, legal & technical, of disconnecting things like the odometer...
The machining of an adapter plate or covers could be done, provided both engine types were available for comparisions and measurements. If enough of us requested it, or perhaps if somebody like DD twisted a few arms, I dare say a company like Advance Adapters could be persuaded to make & market one...

 

[John_P]

Tom:

Give Mike Wood a call at "Scheid Diesel"
@ 1-800-669-1934. He has a 96' that has
a 24 valve motor in it with the P7100
pump.

-----------
John_P

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Red '96 4x4 2500 Auto 3. 54, TST #5, Major Pump Mods(By "Scheid Diesel") 370 Diamond B Injectors, Gov. Spring kit, AFC Spring kit, Banks Exhaust, Prime Loc, Cummins Chrome Kit,Psychotty Air Filter, Pro-Torque Converter, BD Valve Body, BD Pressure Loc, Isspro Gauges, Sendel 16" Alum Wheels w/ 33" BFGs

 

[David_VT]

Go to Brazil, looks like you might get one in a SUPERDUTY... . (might be 12V)
http://www.62-65-dieselpage.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000042.html

Heck, looks like it has an allison transmission also!

[This message has been edited by David_VT (edited 02-27-2001). ]

 

[Briar Hopper]

Thanks, John, I'll do just that. Something that involved needs answers from experienced people that either have one, or have done the conversion themselves...
I can do the installation, just need to round up all the parts and pieces involved...

 

[John_P]

Tom:

Is the VP44 pump giving you problems
on "Black Beauty?" Also, did you ever
get that shudder problem solved?
---------
John_P

 

[Briar Hopper]

No, the VP44 is not giving me problems as of yet, but a close friend lost his VP44 just 2 days ago, and to my knowledge, he had no box hooked up to it, and the lift pump was even okay !
So, yes, the issue is on my mind these days. No panic or worry here, I'm simply trying to hedge my bets. See, the $1200 for another VP44, if mine ever does go belly up, could be better spent towards the total cost of a P7100 conversion. I'd like to have all my information and options in place, for when and if it does happen. And hopefully, be able to share the details on here for the benefit of others in a similiar situation.
No problems, just thinking ahead, that's all. From my 12 Valve buddies, I have a good perspective on the benefits of a P pump...

 

[John_P]

Tom:

Sounds like very good thinking to me!!

-----------
John_P

 

[Chad Sheets]

Just a little info on the pumps. I have never heard anyone associate the P7100 with anyone except Bosch. Today I was talking shop with a guy who knew the insides and outs of the P7100 and said it was made by Federal Mogul. He said he was one of the engineers who worked on the project. I didnt know that. Made in Plainfield Indiana he said. I also learned that Carter is owned by federal Mogul as well. Though I would pass my new found knowledge around.

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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, EZ box, race transmission, Barry Grant fuel system, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

1972 340 Cuda'. Original tripple Black, 340 car w/air. Good clean car, super stock springs, Weld Prostars, shaker hood, strong 340 with a 727/4000 stahl, 4. 56... . Bombs away!
NRA Life Member
My Diesel Page

 

[Briar Hopper]

Interesting info, Chad, thanks... wonder how Carter escaped the quality standards that are apparent in other Federal Mogul products? #ad