Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) P7100 pump timing question.....HOW?

[The patriot]

OK, I've read just about all I can on how to time these. I got the tools, but I need to figure out a few things before digging into this.

What I'm picturing is:

1 You find TDC

2 mark it on the damper

3 put timing tool in #1 DV

4 rotate engine to where you want timing on the dial indicator

5 Pop timing gear off of taper on the camshaft

6 rotate enging to TDC

7 Clean taper on cam thoroughly then torgue nut to 145 ft/lb

8 assemble.



Do I have this right?

I'm so used to timing gas engines (40 yrs) I'm having a hard time visualizing it.

TIA

 

[edgeman]

I actually just got my 97 running yesterday after 3 years of sitting! I was having problems with the timing.

How I understand this to work is:
Rotate engine to TDC #1 cylinder
Put the dial indicator in your number one injector DV
Rotate the engine backwards till you hit where you want your timing advanced.

The problem with mine is I was retarding the timing. As soon as I timed it before TDC it fired right up.

That is how I understand it anyways. Search on here is your best friend! There are alot of write ups on how to do this and Joe Donelly and Joe G. have great write ups on this! Hope this helps!

P. S. you might want to go tighter than 145 ft lbs on the nut they have a tendancy to slip when you run the truck. I snugged the nut, put a socket over the nut against the gear and gave it a couple of taps to seat the gear and then tightend the nut as hard as I could got with a 3/4 drive rachet. The nut has not sliped yet!

 

[The patriot]

Thanks. I'm hoping to avoid problems like you had.

 

[GAmes]

OK, I've read just about all I can on how to time these. I got the tools, but I need to figure out a few things before digging into this.

What I'm picturing is:

1 You find TDC

2 mark it on the damper

3 put timing tool in #1 DV

4 rotate engine to where you want timing on the dial indicator

5 Pop timing gear off of taper on the camshaft

6 rotate enging to TDC

7 Clean taper on cam thoroughly then torgue nut to 145 ft/lb

8 assemble.



Do I have this right?

I'm so used to timing gas engines (40 yrs) I'm having a hard time visualizing it.

TIA

I just did mine today. In a nutshell, that is the correct procedure. Be aware that when you pop the gear from the IP shaft that the IP shaft will move. Mine moves about . 5 mm backward. So I rotate the engine until the gauge is . 5mm higher than I want the setting to be, then pop the gear off. Do not be in a rush and do not be drinking beer while you do it. :-laf

 

[The patriot]

NO BEER?#@$%!

OK. I'm not supposed to drink with the meds I'm on anyway.

Thanks for the tip.



Is it very hard to do alone? I wont have a helper.

 

[GAmes]

I seldom have a helper, I find them to be a distraction. The first time will take awhile because it is easy to forget where you are (at least it was for me) but once the job is finished you will ask yourself, "what was I concerned about?"

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The secret to keeping the pump gear from slipping is getting the taper very clean. Mopar discontinued the good solvent, but Wurth still makes a non chlorinated brake cleaner that is mostly heptane and works great. Don't torque over 144 ft lb. Gently blow dry while wiggling the gear (thread in a long M8 x 1. 25 thread bolt so you can slide the gear away from the tapered seat and siggle it to get all the solvent blown off). Dn't use much air pressure. The front bearing of the injection pump is "open" letting lil drain onto the shaft. Thus, it is best if the truck sat overnight so the pump has had time to drain, and don't blow air on the taper hard or you can get more oil onto the taper, instead of just drying the solvent off of it.



I discussed timing the P7100 pump in Issue 61, p. 102.

 

[WilsonF]

Does this help?

YouTube - ‪12 valve Cummins timing in 40 minutes part 1. mp4‬‏

Floyd

 

[The patriot]

Thanks guys!

I've been watching that guy on youtube. He uses a LOT of air pressure.



I have to get the non chlorinated solvent. Mine is regular. I'll see if I can find the Wurth brand. I believe mine is mostly acetone, cheap wally world stuff. If I cant find that brand, I'll look for the one with the most % heptane.



GAmes, I make up cheat sheets on a clipboard. I just mark off or X out what I've done.

If I dont do something like that, I find myself frantically going to the puter or old TDR mags finding what "I think" I forgot. :{

I'll most likely spend more time in preparation than the actual job.

At least I hope so.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Hexane, heptane, acetone, isopropyl alcohol are OK as ingredients. The toluene and xylene seem to contribute to leaving a residue, so are not good.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The timing blade in the side of the P7100 is only good for +/- 0. 4 degrees or thereabouts. I prefer to use the timing pin in the gear case that fits into the camshaft gear. I also use the tool I made (see Issue 61) to turn the pump after getting to TDC. That way I can get exactly the plunger lift I want. I also don't have to take the engine away from TDC while setting pump plunger lift. There is no need to remove all the injector lines. Just remove #1 or often you can loosen its clamps and flex it gently away from the delivery valve holder (pump) and use a screwdriver handle to hold it away from #2 line near the pump.

 

[Grey Wolf]

The toluene and xylene seem to contribute to leaving a residue, so are not good.

Not to mention they are the best at eating brain cells

 

[The patriot]

Thanks again Joe.



Grey wolf, I used to read a lot of MSDS's @ work. I thought those chems targeted the liver? Either way I keep em off of me.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Grey wolf, I used to read a lot of MSDS's @ work. I thought those chems targeted the liver? Either way I keep em off of me. [/QUOTE]



When I was still working I used to take care of medical laboratory construction remodels. The safety officer always came around to find out what materials we were using. Before our construction department was forced to use water based materials we used the old "bad" solvents, etc. , etc. I don't remember what the formulation was now but one of the contact cements we were using was pretty volatile. I was given the riot act for using it and was also given the effects of that material and many more. Toluene and Xylene (which were used in the lab under bio hoods) came up in the conversation and I remember those were the effects, it made a good impression on me

 

[The patriot]

I got the CRC Brakleen non-chlorinated.

It lists acetone and heptane as ingredients.

Surprisingly there aren't a lot of choices.



Grey wolf, I worked for a major chemical co.

We had a lot of bad stuff on site. I worked in the steam plant, but still had to "safety train" as if I was in production. Monthly tests etc. etc.

Also had to learn the SAP system. What a POS!

 

[Dan_69GTX]

It might be too late, but I wrote a FAQ that deals with this...

https://www.turbodieselregister.com...mission-faq/96154-pump-timing-p7100-pump.html

 

[The patriot]

No not too late, I like to pace myself.

Actually it's been way too hot out. :-laf

 

[The patriot]

Spent 4. 5 hrs today trying to find TDC. #@$%!

I cannot find TDC with the tab into the gear. I went with the tab in the inj pump. I think I have it now. :{

According to my dial indicator, my truck is running around . 5 deg BTDC! ?

Can an engine even run being that much off?

I got . 105", so using some math and a chart I come up with . 5 BTDC which is way off of the chart for a CPL 2175.



I sure wish Cummins cast in a TDC mark somewhere when this was built. What a PITA!#@$%!

 

[GAmes]

It has been posted several times that the pin in the cam gear is not accurate. Finding TDC using the drop valve method takes less than 30 minutes and is very accurate.



https://www.turbodieselregister.com...smission-1994-1998/226462-timing-my-96-a.html

 

[The patriot]

Unfortunately, I do not posses the luck of the Irish.

If I were dropping a valve, I'm sure it would end up being an entire engine tear down. :{

I'd prefer pulling an injector... if it can be done that way. Less of a chance of a C. F. that way.