Paper Towel Oil filter

[Bigsaint]

Thanks for the info Mike. I haven't done any research in the product, other than viewing the website and seeing their rec. based on HP. $395. 00 is much better than $550. 00, but I'd still like to see a direct comparison by a member that analyized his/her oil before and after the bypass filter installed, at the same oil change interval that was normally used. . I realize that driving habits come into play, but I can honestly state that mine stay pretty much the same week to week, month to month. All I need is a vendor to send me a test filter, I promise to post an in depth review of same and even purchase the filter if the results are good. Is that too much to ask .



Scott W.

 

[jlccc]

The following is excerpted from an email I received from Oilguard.

Thanks for the e-mail and the links. It is interesting reading.



We are giving our website a make-over, with lots of new features including

new products and links about how we rate against other styles of bypass

filters. Also there is an independant test that was performed on our filter

element.



You are totally correct in stating that oil analysis is not a valid method

comparing the various filters performances. Different engines have their own

seperate characteristics, just like people have different health conditions.

We have found that using ISO particle counting is the most accurate method of

measuring the performance of a filter. This type of testing actually measures

the contaminate particles in the oil and quantifies them in parts per million

(ppm). There is no measurement on an oil analysis report that measures

contamination sizes or volumn. Wear metals are moslty sub-micron, and

indicate a trend of normal or abnormal engine wear. What oil analysis does

provide is a bill of health on the physical condition of the oil. Viscosity,

TBN, oxidation and other important readings indicate whether the oil can

continue to be used. ISO particle counting measures the amount of particles

in a given micron size range that can vary from 2 microns to 100 microns with

increments in between. What filters are supposed to do is remove particulates

from fluids, and this type of test is the most valid and accurate in

performing this type of evaluation.

 

[Mad Max]

Saint -



I tried that approach already, the Italians wouldn't send me an exotic car for non-press/consumer evaluation, and Hef wouldn't send me a playmate either.



MaX

 

[Bigsaint]

Well, paintball guy , it may not work with those playmates or the Italian car vendors, but it did work here. Deborah at http://www.wefilterit.com/index.html was kind enough to respond to my request and there is a Frantz Filter heading my way for some T+E . In return, I promised to purchase the filter if it works as stated and post the results on the board as well. I plan to write a short article for submission to the TDR magazine if it works out.



I think that speaks highly of Deborah and We filter it. My plan was to install the bypass filter after my next oil change, to give the filter a fair chance. Deborah wants me to install the filter now, after pulling a sample for analysis and then sample again after another 1,000 miles. Right now I have about 2,000 miles on the oil and always drain and replace at 3,000 miles. I've had Blackstone do a analysis on EVERY oil change, so I have a pretty good baseline.



My only concern is the best method to now sample the oil. In the past, I simply pulled a sample from the drickling drain plug when I believed I was at mid-stream, that won't work now. I just ordered a kit from Amsoil that comes with a suction device and 10' of hose, guessing to draw samples from the dipstick line ??? My plan is to run the engine until I reach 140F on the oil temp. gauge, then shut down and insert the hose inside the dipstick line until it stops, then I'll pull it back several inches, stop, mark the hose and draw the sample. I'll do this before the Frantz Filter install and send the sample out, then do it again after 1,000 miles in the same manner. Hopefully that will be consistent enough for a fair reading of the oil. Time will tell but I can tell ya that I'm excited to atleast have another project going on Baby Huey, was getting bored after I finished the Grover install.



If anyone knows of a more consistant method to take a sample without draining the pan, please chime in as I am open to the best method .



Scott W.

 

[WDaniels]

Not real sure how you could get a good sample from the engine, but as someone who has dealt with the JOAP system(or SOAP, spectrial oil analysis program for the old timers) in the Air Force on jet engines for the last 23 years, I would still be suspicious of drawing oil from your dipstick tube. Any grit, grime and boil off contaminates in the dipstick tube will collect on the end of the collection tube you insert and contaminate your sample.

Maybe putting a petcock on one of the lines in the bypass oil lines and draw while the engine is warm and running.

Just a couple of ideas and my two cents worth.

WD

 

[Bigsaint]

Thanks WD, I thought the same on the dip stick approach, just not sure how else to pull a sample from the existing oil w/o cracking the drain plug and letting it drip for awhile before I pull a sample. I know that Geno's has those lever operated plugs, but that won't help me right now as I don't want to drain anymore than necessary to pull a sample. Any other ideas out there ???? My goal is to pull a sample with a minimum of oil replaced, for a fair read on the Frantz Filters performance.



Scott W.

 

[Ted Constantine]

Scott, The dip stick samping system from amsoil is how I do my sampling now. I think it is the most consistent and gives you the least chance of contamination. I have only done one sample from "mid-stream" and the results were uncharacteristic. Beats me as to why but I will say that the sample pump method is foolproof. I will look forward to your results.



Ted

 

[jlccc]

WDaniels has the right idea. Your filter mount has a terrific "built-in" sampling port, namely the 1/8" NPT plug that you will be hooking your bypass filter to. Plumb a short piece of hose to this port and at the end which will EVENTUALLY be hooked to your bypass filter, put a petcock on there instead. Then you can get the oil up to temperature by running the truck and take your sample while the truck is running. That will be the method least likely to result in a contaminated sample. Once you have your sample, unhook the petcock and attach the hose to your bypass filter. You could then splice the petcock "inline" and take your next sample in 1000 miles the same way.

 

[Bigsaint]

Thanks for the input, guys. I'll wait until the Amsoil extraction unit comes and then try to make a decision. I do like the idea that Jpark spoke of, using the 1/8" port. I'm using this location now for my oil temp. gauge. Once I see what comes with the Frantz Filter, I already have plans to include a 1/8" T fitting, to keep the source for the temp. gauge. Maybe a petcock in the shape of a T, inline, going towards the Frantz Filter, would be the best of both worlds. From the very little that I understand about oil analysis, consistancy from one sample to the next plays a large part in accurate results.



Thanks again



Scott W.

 

[jlccc]

Bypass filter installation pictures

Several readers of this thread asked me to post installation pictures. See this post to view them.



http://216.235.147.117/forums/showthread.php?threadid=41001

 

[Balzac]

I have used Frantz filters since 1965 on all of my cars and trucks except on my 2 CTD's. Because the single roll filter is over the maximum recommended # of quarts in the system, I did not use the Frantz. I purchased a 3-stacker from Barry, and plan on mounting it soon.

Using proper TP over the last 37 years has resulted in several vehicles (mostly New Yorkers, & 1 '85 Dodge 1/2 ton 360, 180K miles} still running like new when sold with zero engine repairs along the way.

The TP roll does not channel! It was devoleped because the other add on bypass filter at that time used cotton waste media that did channel! The TP roll must be tightly wound as in single ply commercial rolls.

The demo machine that Frantz used had a electric pump, reservoir, and a mounted F. filter. Carbon black was added to clean oil in the reservoir, and pumped thru the filter and came out the return clear. Carbon black is the most difficult byproduct of combustion to filter out.

A bypass filter is the only way to keep your oil clean and I know the Frantz does the job.

Jim

 

[Frantz Filters]

Hi Jim: This is Deborah. I like hearing that you have been an avid user of the Frantz Filters! I did just want to offer you something I learned from another customer in the same situation that you are. I have a gentleman that uses two Frantz Oil Filters in Tandem. This is when you use two filters together. You still take the pressure feed line out from your oil pressure sending unit, but instead of running it into just one filter, you can install a second "T" and split the oil supply between two filters. Then when the oil comes out from the Frantz Filters, you can use another "T" or if there is a "Y" available (I am not sure of the availability of the "Y") One outlet on one side and the other on the other side, and then you just use one line to return your cleaned oil into your engine system. If you would like the exact particulars of this kind of install, please contact me and I will confirm my advise from a professional installer of Frantz Filters. I hope I have been some help to you. Take Care!

 

[amsoilman]

One of the Biggest assets of the oil return going to the "oil fill cap" is the ability to get an oil sample without any chance of contamination... ... ... ... . period! This is why I have chosen this method of oil return from a by-pass system. I am not talking about the

"duel-remote" unit from Amsoil



#ad








Wayne

amsoilman

 

[Frantz Filters]

Dear Wayne: Very impresive picture of your return line into the oil cap. Is that something that you did special yourself or did you buy that oil cap & fitting already like that and if so where? I would be very interested in knowing more, please. Thank You!

 

[amsoilman]

Frantz,

I modify the caps myself,using a "swivel" fitting purchased from Amsoil Inc.



Wayne

 

[Frantz Filters]

Wayne:

Very Cool! Can that be done with any type of oil cap and can the average handy-man or mechanic do it? I just left you a phone message. Thank You!

 

[Bigsaint]

TTT... Deborah has come through. I received the Frantz filter from her today with a bill that reads ' payable upon statisfaction'. I'm hoping to get it installed this weekend, if all goes well and the rain ends. Just have to find a good place to mount the filter. Looks like the pass. side battery hold down will provide the best access for element changes. It's either there or the bracket for the alternator. I'll take some pics. after it's installed and start a new thread. I'm going to pull a sample before the filter goes in and send it out for analysis ( looks like there will be about 2,000 miles on the oil) and then resample in the same manner after another 1,000 miles.



Scott W.

 

[jlccc]

Originally posted by Bigsaint

I'm going to pull a sample before the filter goes in and send it out for analysis ( looks like there will be about 2,000 miles on the oil) and then resample in the same manner after another 1,000 miles.



Scott W.

Scott:

Please don't take this the wrong way but what difference do you expect to take place in your oil in 1000 miles?



Unless I totally misunderstand what an oil analysis is, you won't see any difference between the two samples. The metallic concentrations will be the same. The only thing the bypass filter will do is remove particulates down to 1 micron. The wear metals in your oil are sub-micron and won't be affected at all by running through the bypass filter.



Hopefully what you'll see after running with the bypass filter is a decrease in wear metals for the same mileage. That doesn't happen because the bypass filter filters them out. Rather it happens because the bypass filter takes out the PARTICULATES that cause the wear metals to end up in the oil in the first place.



So what you really want to compare is the amount of wear metals in your oil w/o the use of the bypass filter and then the amount of wear metals in the oil w/ the use of a bypass filter. CHANGE THE OIL between the two tests and use the same type of oil and test at the same mileage.



jrp

 

[jlccc]

reduction in particulates

Now what would really be neat is if you could have a "particle count" done on the oil both before and after the filter was installed. If you saw a reduction in the number of particles between 1 and 25 microns after you installed the filter, THEN you'd be able to see the effectiveness of the bypass filter DIRECTLY, rather than only seeing its EFFECT as evidenced by reduced concentrations of wear metals.

 

[jlccc]

particulate counting continued

I guess I should have just requoted a previous post which contained the email excerpt from Oilguard.

We are giving our website a make-over, with lots of new features including new products and links about how we rate against other styles of bypass filters. Also there is an independant test that was performed on our filter element.



You are totally correct in stating that oil analysis is not a valid method comparing the various filters performances.



We have found that using ISO particle counting is the most accurate method of measuring the performance of a filter. This type of testing actually measures the contaminate particles in the oil and quantifies them in parts per million.



THERE IS NO MEASUREMENT on an oil analysis report that measures contamination sizes or volume. Wear metals are moslty sub-micron, and indicate a trend of normal or abnormal engine wear. What oil analysis does provide is a bill of health on the physical condition of the oil. Viscosity, TBN, oxidation and other important readings indicate whether the oil can continue to be used. ISO particle counting measures the amount of particles in a given micron size range that can vary from 2 microns to 100 microns with increments in between.



What filters are supposed to do is remove particulates from fluids, and this type of test is the most valid and accurate in performing this type of evaluation.

So again, I don't think an oil analysis after 1000 miles is going to do anything but lighten your wallet by $15.