Payload Enhancement Ideas?

[rfullerton]

I carry a 3,500 to 4,000 lbs Lance truck camper (the largest Lance had in 1998). It managed to bend the brackets on a pair of Air Lift air bags rated to 5,000 lbs, destroying the syst. This was w/o aggressive off or on road driving. I have installed at near max tension a pair of Helper Springs that are rated to 3,500 lbs. They initially provided great stability and leveled the ride. However, the right side of the camper is significantly heavier than the left, causing the camper & truck to lean to the right. I want to have a "better carrying ability", w/o a large investment in another air bag syst, and not deplete my savings. I have reviewed articles submitted within this forum, but they do not quite match my situation. Does anyone have any other ideas that will allow me to retain my stock 5,000 lbs leafs, leaving the helper spring leafs rated at 3,500 lbs in place (the helper spring u-bolts and nuts have ceased over the years)? Thanks.



1996 3500 4x4 Ext Cab, TST plate, Helper Springs & a mean black Ranch Hand Front Bumper Replacement begging for a big winch.

 

[klenger]

Welcome to the TDR.



Your slide-in is as heavy as my 1st 21' travel trailer. Good luck.

 

[RustyJC]

Not meant as a smart-aleck remark, but do you think that maybe your truck is trying to tell you it's overloaded to the point that it just can't handle the load when taken off-road, etc. ?



Rusty

 

[DPelletier]

My only suggestion is to try to equalize the weight a little. Unfortunately its doubtful you can make up for poor planing on the part of the manufacturer. You can look at battery placement and your personal effects and gear. I use two T-105's which are very heavy as well as a group 31. If your battery(s) are on the heavy side, move them. Try to load heavy goods on the light side, like canned goods, etc. and the potato chips on the heavy side.

If any of the tanks are on the heavy side, try to leave them empty when travelling, ie. if its a waste tank, drain it at the nearest available dump and if its a fresh water tank, don't fill it until you have to. Same with propane.

The only other option that I can think of is to add a leaf to the overloads on the heavy side or remove one of the overloads from the light side. A spring shop shouldn't charge too much for that and you could weigh the wheels loaded to give them an idea of what you're trying to do. This wouldn't effect the truck unloaded as the overloads wouldn't be engaged.



Hope this helps



Dave

 

[DHayden]

Hmmm... Have you considered a kelderman air ride system? I know you said you want to stay away from another airbag system but these aren't like airbag helpers. You also said you didn't want to spend your savings, but to me it looks like you might end up doing just that with the weight your talking about. Like my grand daddy told me, spend what you need to do it right the first time or pay allot more in the long run and do it over and over... . and over

 

[y-knot]

If a few air bags has him worried, I don't think he is going to go with the kelderman set up ($300-400 for the air bags vs $2500-3000 k-setup). I think rusty is right, your truck is talking , but no one is listening. Good luck.

 

[bmoeller]

Sounds like to much weight to me.



Here is a idea that I saw several times (same person). If you pull a trailer along already, it won't help you any. -



I did see one guy who had a big slide in mounted on a gooseneck flatbed car trailer. He built doors where the fenderwells would be for storage. Trailer was long enough on the back to have a small "deck".



If you get lucky, you can find one reasonably. Or build one with used parts. This way, your truck will only have to carry part, instead of all the weight.



Just a thought.

 

[IWeiny]

well...

This really does not sound all that heavy for a camper. Are you sure that is all it weighs?



I have an 8ft on my 2500 and I know for a fact that it weights about 3000# loaded. (This is the lightest 03 hard side model we could find!!! It says 2000# wet on the sticker on the side. ) You might want to weight it and see if you are in fact more like 5000# I hope for my sake you are since I will be having trouble soon if I am not carefull...



Just another thought, maybe your stock springs are worn out and the aftermarket ones/air bags were taking all the load? That might have been why they failed?



The firestone air bags are rated to 3000# EACH, maybe they are better?



Sorry there are not good answers in this post.

 

[dewdo]

On the passenger side where the slide out on mine is leans, but I have the firstone system with the on board compressor so I just add more air to the right bag or let it out of the left side to level it upon the road. When I extend the slide out it leans even more so I let all the air our of the left side or just use the Stable Lift System to level up.



Dewdo in the other Washington

 

[HBarlow]

rfullerton:



Have you tried a spring shop? A spring shop can add leaves to your OEM lower spring pack, to the auxiliary spring pack, or to both. A good spring shop could also replace your OEM leaves with thicker, stronger spring leaves.



None of these suggestions is going to compensate for being technically overloaded but can make your truck ride level and handle more safely.



Harvey

 

[rfullerton]

Gentlemen,



I appreciate the quick and info filled replies! All Good Stuff.



I assure you that I have listened to my truck, but I have not given up the ship (truck), though it lists to right, and it is not taking on water. The truck w/o any assistance could carry the camper, I just have a problem with it doing the a$$ drag like a 1/2 ton with to much tongue weight. It was not to bad, but the lean to the right, and the sway were the initial concerns.



I have now lightened the load as much as possible, and will use DPelletier's suggestion to move some weight that is in my truck to the left. I sent an e-mail to Kelderman as DHayden suggested. They said that they have a syst that can handle the weight, but that sway was still a big concern > they desire to solve this problem 1st before trying to satisfy the large truck camper issue. I need to get both my rig and camper on a scale as suggested by IWeiny (I have been negligent on this matter). IRT HBarlow's suggestion, I now plan on visiting a nearby sprig shop. They may have an inexpensive solution.



Another question: Does anybody know or seen the use of rear coil springs on a 1-Ton Dodge Ram? Do you think it would be possible to insert a rear coil spring btwn the helper spring that is bolted on top of my stock leafs and the frame/bed?



In any event, if I can be of any assistance, as each of you have, pls let me know.



For TSR: great spell checker!



rfullerton

 

[HBarlow]

rfullerton:



It is possible to install coil springs between axle and frame but it might not be as simple as it sounds.



First, the challenge of finding a pair that would be approximately the proper height to fit.



Second, finding appropriate weight-rated springs.



Third, a compressed coil spring can be almost as destructive as a bomb if it is not retained in place. You would have to construct something to keep the springs in place so they couldn't slip out sideways when compressed.



Fourth, adding a pair of coil springs would probably make the rear of your truck so stiff you couldn't stand to ride in it unless you got lucky and found a pair with modest weight capacity and limited length. You would want a pair that were short enough to remain unloaded until the truck camper was loaded. If the coil springs were tensioned when the truck is unloaded, it would make the ride extremely stiff.



Harvey

 

[DPelletier]

rfullerton,

I think Harvey is right. Coil springs would be a logistic nightmare. I can't see how you would avoid severly limiting travel and the mounts would be a PITA. My main point is why bother, you have an overload spring set-up now, so I would have it modified to work. I wouldn't touch the main spring pack as that would have a noticable effect on the truck unloaded. If it was my truck and camper, I would;

- lighten the load as much as possible

- shift the load to be as balanced as possible

- get a spring shop to add an appropriate leaf to the right side overload pack after weighing each side with the camper on and loaded.

As always, this is only my humble and modest opinion, which can be (and frequently should be) ignored!

Cheers

Dave

 

[JWhitcomb]

First thing I want to ask is, has there been a big change in the 3500 suspension between '96 and '01. The second thing is you mentioned off road, do you take the truck/camper off road?



I carry about 1000# more than you do and, knock on wood, don't have those kind of problems. The only off road I do is chains required driving and some dirt roads on NF lands, no true off road.



Your spring package is stronger by far than a stock set up and your problems are a real puzzler.

 

[bmoeller]

How often do you remove the camper? If you still drive empty frequently, you may want to add a leaf or 2 to the overload spring set first. Adding more on the other set will make it ride much stiffer w/o any weight in the back.



This is assuming that the factory overloads are in place, but given that you have air bags it probably doesn't.

 

[bombero]

You didnt say what length the camper is but I bet its hanging over your bumper by 2 or 3 feet? Anyway you should contact Lance with your problem. Dont try to cheap out of the fix!!

 

[rfullerton]

Gentlemen,



It seems from the initial replies that the rear coil spring is probably not an option, at least for me. If I can find a Pro shop out in town that can convince me that they can do it, maybe. The consensus seems to be for added leaf springs, either to the stock or to my helper springs. This I will explore. Thanks.



In response to a couple of questions:

- JWhitcomb: I am not aware of a change in Dodge's suspension btwn the years you mentioned. I believe both of our trucks are rated to about 5K lbs payload. The bulk of my camper sits on or behind my axle, amplifying the tongue weight. I have taken the truck/camper off-road to secluded sites. To date, our favorite camper memories. Getting into the spot and out did not require aggressive off-road driving. Our two best were thru a lot of mud up against a lake, and a lot of sand up against an inlet, all by ourselves, less the alligators and sand crabs, respectively. The 4 wheeling began, when we dislodged the camper and took the rig naked into the mud and sand. Serious fun! The damage seems to have occurred during very hard turns to the left, and over poorly paved railroad tracks.

- bmoeller: We try to take out the camper every month, or at least every two months. Otherwise, the camper remains in storage, while the truck is my main transportation. The adl leaf spring recommendation may be the best option.

- bombero: You are exactly correct; my Lance overhangs my bumper by about 3': hence the increased tongue weight. I have installed a CL V receiver for the 3' foot tongue to tow a boat too, someday, but I have to fix this issue 1st. By the time I am done, this will be about a $1k fix or more, unfortunately.



Thanks again.

 

[rodmeyer]

springs

I have a dually with the over load spring and carry a5000lb bigfoot. I took the factory over load spring off and replaced it with 5000lb. overloads, Big difference. you may need to re-ark your factory springs also.