Petroleum product in DEF

[Cummins12V98]

Son’s Girlfriends new 21 2500 has not used any DEF for the last 2k even towing a 3k trailer. Dealer said Petroleum in DEF tank and 8k to fix and not covered by warranty.

Thoughts on what should be done to get it back working again?

First drain tank and thoroughly clean. Then what?

 

[gsbrockman]

Son’s Girlfriends new 21 2500 has not used any DEF for the last 2k even towing a 3k trailer. Dealer said Petroleum in DEF tank and 8k to fix and not covered by warranty.

Thoughts on what should be done to get it back working again?

First drain tank and thoroughly clean. Then what?

Any CEL’s? I’d be tempted to send off a drained sample and see for myself as to the petroleum in DEF allegations.

But yes.....drop the tank, thoroughly clean, and refill with fresh DEF.

 

[Cummins12V98]

GF thinks she put Diesel in it a couple months ago. Added DEF a few times since. Yes codes but don’t have right now.

Thinking since Diesel floats on water it took a while for it to sense the Petroleum and stop injecting DEF.

 

[Cummins12V98]

They gave a long list of items to be replaced for 8k. Around $1,300 of that was labor.

Our plan is to drain, clean, clear codes, then see what happens.

I will explain later what happened with the diesel fill.

 

[Ozymandias]

Should work, maybe some sensors are toast but that can be figured out later.

Dealer does correct because he has to warranty that job.
Every slight contamination can set of codes again.

Means you must clean it cleaner then clean. No shortcuts here.

 

[Timd32]

On the right track for remove and flush and the sort.

Couple options. Your probably going to need some reference info, now a days it's a subscription service not the actual manuals, that has a lot of benefits that a typical manual will not have.

Two things come to mind.

1. Sign up for a Tech Authority deal for a few days, they have some good options for stuff like this price wise. Check it first to see what the latest is on that.

2. ALLDATA DIY also is an option. 2021 info is all in there, I pulled up the 2021 and no lack of procedures from what I can tell, the DIY should basically be what full service gets from what I understand of that product.

I can pull some info it's all in there this exceed my phone shot deal for sure. Also size limits and the sort for any procedures will exceed the site limits it always has in the past. So if you need something let me know.

From other events the quality sensor is internal to the reservoir so that is listed as a replace.

If you have a detailed parts list on your quote you could reverse engineer those steps and procedures to see what they already diagnosed to save sometime and hunt a peck method, they spelled out what they think is needed now to compare to the procedures and see what risk and more elbow grease can offer, and if any is just tossing parts to make the job faster for them, which I tend spend money to save time alot.

There was not a single procedure for this but in general if the quality sensor is damaged that's part of the tank reservoir and needs to be replaced as a unit. It listed that at $572 I'm sure that's full retail. So your spending some money for sure.

We ran across this not too long ago on a 2020 they caught it before running the truck and it was a more simple drain and fill, sounds like this has had some time to circulate for sure. Stuff happens.

I think the two subscription services listed above and a printer will be your best friend working thru the system as a whole.

If you need a few procedures let me know. Can send some stuff over as time permits.

 

[Timd32]

Forgot another option, call your insurance company see whats up. Have a talk with them or your agent.

 

[promisedland]

So $$, sorry.
If warr. was running out I would prob do a "stealth" delete.
So frustrating when the Carb crap starts plugging etc & it's thousands of bucks to fix.
Company I work for is doing the stealth deletes on our Kenworths. They run better, don't stink (regen) better mpg & give less trouble.

 

[Ozymandias]

Do a delete and you own it for life because no dealer will trade it in or even work on.
It's not that easy anymore, these times are a thing of the past.

 

[AH64ID]

I have to wonder how diesel was even put in the DEF tank, the nozzle is much too large to even make it seem possible. If there was room for more DEF since how much diesel was put into the tank? How long before codes showed up?

DEF in the diesel is much more common.

Removal and cleaning would probably work well.

 

[RBeard]

Same thing happened to my Son. At 800 miles on clock, he got CEL with codes for DEF tank. Went to dealer and they sent a lighted camera down the DEF filler with a 1" piece of paper attached to the end of the camera. They lightly touched the paper to the surface of the DEF fluid and then brought it out. Paper smelled like diesel and they declared DEF contamination. Dealer said they see 1-2 a month lately. Son had never added DEF since picking up truck, and DEF gauge showed 68%. Upon reflection, dealer stated that the DEF quality sensor is probably at that tank level and diesel floats on top, had he never let the level drop below that there's no telling how long until it reared it's ugly $3500 head. We surmise that when the yard monkey filled the truck with Diesel/DEF at delivery, he opened both filler necks and as he removed the Diesel nozzle, he splashed the diesel dribble into the DEF hole.
The lesson learned is since the filler necks are that close together, NEVER EVER open both filler necks at the same time when fueling.

 

[gsbrockman]

They gave a long list of items to be replaced for 8k. Around $1,300 of that was labor.

Our plan is to drain, clean, clear codes, then see what happens.

I will explain later what happened with the diesel fill.

If possible, as part of the cleansing process, I’d attempt to buy several containers of DEF and use the DEF as the cleaner.

IMO.....I’d seriously consider going to a local boneyard for a COMPLETE used unit before dropping $8k at the dealership.

The other alternative is doing as @Timd32 mentioned......and filing an insurance claim under the comprehensive part of it.

 

[RBeard]

P.S., To my surprise my Son said that his Ins. Co. is paying $2500 of the $3500. He went to another dealer and said they will just replace the tank/pump assembly and flush/clean the rest of the system, due to the diesel never made out of the tank to mess up anything else. The original dealer wanted to R&R every piece from filler neck to injector. $$$$$

 

[RBeard]

P.S.S.- I don't think that DEF being water based would due much to clean the system, but one mechanic said he has reset the codes and just kept the DEF tank filled all the time and never let the sensors detect the little bit of fuel floating on the surface. Since fuel floats, I think I would try to send a tube down and inject DEF into the bottom of the tank, overfilling the tank and puke any fuel floating on the top of the DEF out the filler neck.

 

[sag2]

Just pull the tank, open it up and clean completely. I would think Simple Green should be safe and it would clean up the diesel. Even dish soap should work fine.

 

[Cummins12V98]

Lots of great info guys!!!

This is what I think happened. Right after getting the truck she needed DEF and was in Amarillo and saw a Truck stop saying DEF. She pulled up to the pump and fueled holding the nozzle after fueling and hit the DEF button as in her mind there was ONE nozzle for both. She shoved the nozzle to the opening and it shot fuel in and around. She called my Son who told her she needs to go slow not knowing she was holding the Diesel nozzle. She proceeded to go slow and finally decided making a big mess it was not right. Then she went inside and bought a 2.5 DEF and filled that into the truck.

I told her after hearing what happened that YES there was a DEF nozzle but it was behind a door because it freezes in TX.

She kept telling my Son it was too big and he insisted it was not!!!

Insurance at this time is not an option as he has had too many Comprehensive claims.

 

[Cummins12V98]

plus two DEF at $57.89

 

[gsbrockman]

Uggghhhhh.......

 

[sag2]

I see no reason for everything below the urea module O-ring. There are no codes for any of the aftertreatment parts so I would replace the tank and pump, clean everything else with soapy water (except perhaps the line from tank to injector which might be easier to replace) and see what happens. Pull off the injector and see if you can flush the inlet to get any residual diesel out of it. Then add clean DEF and drive it.
If you have access to Alfa OBD you can drop the tank to clean it, reinstall and run the DEF injector test with soapy water with injector removed. That should flush the injector. Then drain tank again and add a gallon of DEF and run the routine again. That should flush any soapy water out. Then replace the parts and drive it to see if all the exhaust parts are good, which I would guess is yes.

 

[sag2]

There is a STAR case that says hydrocarbons above 100 PPM can ruin the system. That is why everything has to be cleaned or replaced.