Piers- 215hp pump? Why stop there?

[Cummins Corvette]

While I was up at Piers's place we spoke of swapping my 180 pump for a 215 hp pump. My question is why stop there? If I am going to swap pumps some day why the heck not go for a pump for a 300hp rv engine? If the 215 pump has bigger plungers and a bigger, self advancing cam, then what does the 300 pump have to offer? Why spend 2200 big ones to only get a pump intended for 35 more hp when the one intended for 120 more costs the same? Theoretically a pump with bigger plungers could get the fuel on the cylinder faster, resulting in a quicker and more complete burn, lower egts and greater efficiency (more mpgs ). What could be the down side? Hey Piers, any help with this would be appreciated a bunch.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I want to see what Piers has to say... . but I'm in agreement with you. I don't want to spend that kind of bread and not have a pump flow what I eventually want it to flow.



I also want to see bigger injector lines... . everyone is trying to push more fuel through these lines with bigger delivery valves, pump mods, and cam plates... . but are they really capable of carrying the added fuel efficiently??!!



Matt

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

You just don't understand

The 215 pump is essentially a race pump with all the good stuff, that is, the expensive and hard to install stuff, already there. It's not just a little bigger version of the 160 or 180 hp pump.



The 215 pump can give over 600 hp, as Sickly has proved.



If you would rather have a 300 or 370 marine pump, fine, it costs more but Piers or I can get one for you.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

I just don't want a pump..... I want THE pump... . when the time comes of course.

I understand now the differences and am starting to dislike my 160bhp P7100... .



Matt

 

[Todd G]

What's the difference between the 215 pump and the 370 marine pump?

 

[Strick-9]

Matt,



I understand your concern. If you think you are starting to dislike your little pump now wait till you have about 350-370 hp like a few of us. Then you'll absolutely DISPISE your pump and all of its limitations.



I was told by someone that worked at a pump shop that a pump off a C-series (i. e. 8. 3 liter) would bolt right up. I haven't verified this, but it did make me grin a few times thinking about the possibilities.



As for me, I'm going with the 215 hp pump. That allows you 600hp like Joe mentioned above. SIX HUNDRED. I can't even fathom power like that.



-Chris

 

[Piers]

AHH grasshopper, you ask a lot of questions. But that's okay, it's how we all learn I've looked into a few of the many different versions of the P7100 pump. I found the 913 pump [used on most 96-98. 5 215hp Rams] to be the best "bang for the buck" From the 160hp version to the 370hp version, the 215hp works the best for our applications. They all have 12mm plungers & barrels. If you want 13mm p & b's, like I put into Auto Wurks race pump, then ya gotta add them, it also got a custom grind camshaft. The 913 has a good camshaft & has the most timing advance built into the plungers. You can set the base timing of a 913 to 15 or 16 degrees and still have it rev good to 3800rpm, a 160hp version you would need at least 18 degrees base advance to be able to cleanly [no burbing or farting aloud ] turn those kind of revs. The 370 pump uses the same camshaft as the 160hp pump, but then Bosch only designed it to run a maximum of 3000 rpm's, it doesn't have enough "fill" time to turn big fuel numbers at high rpm's. Morale of this story, just cause it came off a 230hp or 370hp motor, doesn't mean it's the best thing going. For the record, when I have a custom camshaft ground, i use the 160hp version, although in its stock form it doesn't have the required "fill" time[ we fix that when regrinding it], it does have one of the better lifts.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Oh yeah! That's right, I got the good camshaft!! insert lack of diesel knowledge here: So I have in effect two camshafts in my truck... . cool!



Lemme get this straight... I regrind my cam... . put a 215hp '913' pump in, cam plate it, bigger injectors and TWIN TURBOS... and I have me some serious HP... I can live with that.



As for the C8. 3L... . I was looking at one the other day in a fire truck (250hp version... in a F*rd!! F-600) and was telling my Dad that if he wanted to get to the scene quicker... . I could play with the pump a little... .



I had EVIL thoughts of putting a C8. 3L in my Cummins/Dodge truck... .



Now, how about them injector lines? In another topic I questioned whether or not the stock lines are up to the task of carrying the added fuel..... ????



As for 600hp... . I've driven a few cars on the street with that kind of power and it's pure insanity (10. 77@144mph '94 Toyota Supra)... . in my truck... I can only imagine what I could do... .



Matt - plungers and barrels and camshafts... . oh my!!

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

I'll bring some key parts from a dismantled P7100 to the Texas rally.



I can imagine what 600 hp is like but now I want another 600 hp on top of it

I'm back to my thoughts of 24 valves. One 12 valve engine under the hood, another in the bed. 4 wheel drive the right way. Kind of like the Hurst Hairy Olds.

 

[Cummins Corvette]

Hey Matt: Look at the size of the holes in any injector. I wouldn't think that the total area of all the holes combined would even compare to 10% of the area of the line. I think that the lines themselves are capable of moving enough fuel for thousands of hp. There might be some characteristics of the lines that I am not aware of but it seems fairly obvious to me.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Well, here's my $. 02 worth... .



On a common rail type setup... . kinda like a MPI gasser... . when the supply rail has increased capacity the rate of fuel flow to the injectors is improved and the potential fuel rate is also higher.



Granted the injection pump is only going to put out a set amount of fuel through each line on every cycle... . once the pump really starts churning out the fuel the demand for higher flow is increased.



The more I think about this, the more sense it makes to leave 'em alone unless you really want to spend a lot of R&D time. Larger diameter lines would in effect reduce the pressure inside the lines (all things equal) and would probably not be good for proper fuel injection into the cylinder. But if bigger lines were made and the pressure was somehow turned up inside the pump, we could take advantage of the higer flow rates at the higher rpm ranges that some folks like.



It's speculation at this point... . if i had $. 01 for every time I've hear that.



I need to live closer to Texas and Canada... . seems like all the cool diesel stuff happens in either of these two places!



Matt

 

[Strick-9]

Matt,



That's hilarious. I live in Texas, and I'm always thinking, "Gosh, I wish I lived in Northern California or in the upper east coast where people are more into diesel performance. "



Diesel Performance seems to be spreading like wildfire. Keep your eyes open. They're around.



-Chris

 

[HoleshotHolset]

There are some diesel folk around here, but I want to see the big HP ladies and gentlemen... . most of all I want to see a twin-turbo setup... . HINT, HINT!!



I literally went down to the fire station to visit with Dad just so I could look at some big diesels up close. He even let me fire up a 475hp DD Silver 92 and play with a C8. 3-250..... They have several 'Cats there too and even a new Cummins that I'm going to check out sometime.



Matt - I live, breathe (literally), sleep, eat, drink (literally) diesel!!!