Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Piers B1 vs. BD Super B Turbo

[Jerred]

For a guy looking to bust the 400hp barrier, and more importantly, control EGT's at WOT at elevation to utilize available power, can anyone chime in some opinions on these two big daddy single turbo setups?



If you talk to either company, they seem to be built for about the same setups and results. Of course, both will warn you not to buy the other guy's product, but that's just business.



With the exception of a #10 plate and 191dv's, which are on their way, my setup is listed below. I know every truck is different, but I'd like to get some homework done before I drop another $1600 on a turbo! I think both will move the air I need, just hoping for some more advice.



SIDEBAR: for you Californian's out there, J&H Performance is holding a dyno/drag weekend, 17-18 Sept up in Redding, CA. Stopped by the other day and told them I'd help get the word out. They're a small shop with alot of heart and two great guys that own it. They've been a ton of help for me, and I haven't even bought anything form them yet!

 

[csutton7]

you're dead on about Joel and Harvey at J&H--



as for the turbos I'd get Piers' B1---depending on your elevation you may want to consider the kwik spool or one of the other B1 models--I've had a B1 since they first came out and am using it still in my twin setup---chris

 

[AWray]

Without trying to steal the post, what would make a better single turbo for the 400-500 hp range, the B-1 from Piers, the BD Super B, or the HTB2? I am trying to establish a reliable and affordable 4-500 hp setup.

 

[csutton7]

I know nothing of the htb2 and I thought the BD turbo was a good 400hp turbo per their site--maybe it can handle a little more, I just know what my B1 has done and it's still ticking--chris

 

[Forrest Nearing]

twins

 

[BPonci]

Well put Forrest!

 

[1dslram]

Do as Forrest says. Save yourself money and a lot of wasted time and go with the Piers twins the first time as you will be there eventualy anyway. I went the large single route and the lag gets worse as the upper output increases, and the really good large turbo's arn't cheap.

Bruce

 

[Forrest Nearing]

ESPECIALLY at altitude!!!!

 

[Jim Fulmer]

If you ever go to Twins you will never go back to a Single, there just too nice and yes they are expensive even for those of us that build our own. They rate right up there with a box of 64 Crayons... . (with the sharpner) vise the 24 pack, G. I. Joe with the Kung foo grip, Super Big Gulps ect, and people will always want to look at them because there just cool



Jim

 

[Jerred]

Roger on the twins, I feel ya... . except my finances will not allow at this point. So, I guess the REAL question is which of the big boys I can get now that will be good for a twin setup down the road? I hear the Piers B1-2 is a good candidate for marriage with another for a twin setup. Any thoughts?

 

[Jerred]

Almost forgot, I stopped in at Ken Imler's diesel palace yesterday and he's testing a couple of new Garrett turbos, of the caliber of a Piers B1 or the BD Super B, that were just awesome on a 24v, added 45+ hp and dropped the top end temps almost 300deg. The truck he put it on went from about 370hp to almost 420hp intantly and dropped the top end temp from close to 1700deg to right at 1400deg at max power :--) He's going to see if Garrett will want to do the same with my truck (12v)! Gotta love freebies! I'll let you guys know how that goes.

 

[EGaskamp]

I don't really know a whole lot about turbos. The most I know is HX-35, 40 and 50. Whats the difference between the BD like yall are talking about and the HX?

 

[RonA]

I hate to bring this up, but 1700 is too high so is 1400. Even wimpy towing twins will bring 400hp egt down to 1000 deg or so. 5 to 7 thousand by the time you do your head and add studs sucks though.

RonA

 

[Jerred]

I know it! Twins would be optimal, just too expensive right now. So do you guys think the B1-2 is a good candidate for a future twin setup?

 

[HoleshotHolset]

They rate right up there with a box of 64 Crayons... . (with the sharpner) vise the 24 pack, G. I. Joe with the Kung foo grip, Super Big Gulps ect...

I would consider Jim Fulmer to be an expert on 'Super Big Gulps'... I've never seen him without at least a quart of pop in his hand.



My vote is for twins as well - I can't stand hardly any of the big single turbos on the market that bolt onto our trucks...



Jarred: Do those Garrett turbos have ball-bearing center sections?



Matt

 

[Jerred]

Jarred: Do those Garrett turbos have ball-bearing center sections?



Matt[/QUOTE]



I'll ask today, but I think they do. Ken was talking about making the oil orrifice smaller to help lessen the effects of the oil bath on spoolup. Apparently, these things are real early prototypes, as in, they didn't have any of the connections finished and ready to bolt up. Ken had to make alot of the exh, oil and intake interfaces before he could even install the thing!



The one cool thing about these turbos is that they have connections for a true INTERcooler. Ken had to make risers for them, but they'll tap right off the heater core, like some of you guys with Prop Inj. He didn't have that hooked up when he ran in on the 24v, but if my truck is next, I'll make sure he does. I hear they make a noticable difference, makes sence, pushing 180deg water through a 1200deg turbo, it's gotta do something!

 

[jpickens]

big turbo

Okay I just picked up a free reman HT60 off an N14 yesterday... .

how do I make this thing work?!? haha :-laf

really... what's the diff between an HT 60 and a HX 60 ?

... and is anyone running this guy on a twins setup? or am I totally barking up the wrong tree with this.

 

[Jerred]

I asked around about an HX50 as well. Basically, I think that lag is due to the size of the exh housing so depending on what is mated to that 60 is how it will spool. As far as how much bigger the 60 is compared to a 50 or 40, I'm not sure. I just don't know if the 6BT engine will generate enough gas flow to turn that big compressor. I think the reason twins are such a big improvement is that you get the piggy-backed effect of two smaller compressors and the air flow of the combined compression without having to spool a huge single. Am I way off base on that one? Just trying to get down to some science on this stuff.

 

[HoleshotHolset]

Jarred said: "The one cool thing about these turbos is that they have connections for a true INTERcooler. "



These connections are probably for a water cooled center section. I have mixed feelings about water cooled center sections... but, they seem to work well in everything I have seen... but it's one more thing to hook up and prevent leaks on...



Matt

 

[Jerred]

Holeshotholset,



True, maybe I'll be able to do two runs, see what effects it has (center section cooling).



BTW, I was contacted by a guy in Finland that's rebuilding a 6BT to put into a suburban, he clued me into the thread you guys have had for the last two years. Holy cow, if you guys don't know what I'm talking about, check out this sight: http://www.student.oulu.fi/~jpontys/cummins.html



There's a TDR thread too about his project. Post #1002624. You have to see to believe. He's my inspiration.