Planning for "Shop" build - Give me your suggestions!

[MVenditti]

Since you will not be there all the time, you should consider how you will winterize the space when you are gone. I would recommend that you avoid plumbing on the outside walls (like the corner shower) and a means to drain everything just in care of extended sub-zero weather or power failure.



You should provide sufficient ceiling space in the garage area for a future lift. You are smart to provide for all the storage you can create.

For radient and other water systems you can use an anti freeze designed for this use so you wont have freezing problems. High density foam or spray foam insulation will pay for it self with much higher R-value than other types. Also bigger is better, space fills up quick.

 

[rbattelle]

Also bigger is better, space fills up quick.

I am convinced that no matter how big you build a shop, it's too small. People tend to accumulate exactly enough "stuff" to perfectly fill their shop.



Ryan

 

[Dl5treez]

1. Pour the thickest concrete floor you can afford.

2. There is no such thing as too many electrical outlets.

3. There is not such things as "too tall'

4. . If you go with roll up doors, spend the money on the true 'roll up' style, not the large panel type on tracks that just take up space.

5. Use the highest R fact insulation you can afford.

6. Lights, lights, and more lights. No shadows. Light that baby up.

6a. Use flourescents.

7. Fire-rated 'fireboard' "sheet rock". Especially if you have living quarters.

8. Invest in a high quality air circulation system, with filtration.

9. If you go with underfloor heat, use the glycol with PEX. Stay away from hard plumbing and the electrical grid elements.

10. Real windows, that open. Like a house.

11. Real siding, like a house. Hardi-plank is nice.

12. Put in the heaviest electrical service you can afford.

13. Plan ahead with plumbing. Easier to plumb now than remember you wanted a washer/dryer later on and break out the Hilti.

14. cold AND hot running water at multiple stations in the shop.

14a. Use PEX plumbing. I'll never go back to copper pipe.

15. There is no such thing as too big.





have fun...

 

[Dieselnut59]

1. Pour the thickest concrete floor you can afford.

2. There is no such thing as too many electrical outlets.

3. There is not such things as "too tall'

4. . If you go with roll up doors, spend the money on the true 'roll up' style, not the large panel type on tracks that just take up space.

5. Use the highest R fact insulation you can afford.

6. Lights, lights, and more lights. No shadows. Light that baby up.

6a. Use flourescents.

7. Fire-rated 'fireboard' "sheet rock". Especially if you have living quarters.

8. Invest in a high quality air circulation system, with filtration.

9. If you go with underfloor heat, use the glycol with PEX. Stay away from hard plumbing and the electrical grid elements.

10. Real windows, that open. Like a house.

11. Real siding, like a house. Hardi-plank is nice.

12. Put in the heaviest electrical service you can afford.

13. Plan ahead with plumbing. Easier to plumb now than remember you wanted a washer/dryer later on and break out the Hilti.

14. cold AND hot running water at multiple stations in the shop.

14a. Use PEX plumbing. I'll never go back to copper pipe.

15. There is no such thing as too big.





have fun...

I agree with most of what he said here, with exceptions.

I have the "panel type" roll up doors (on tracks) because they have foam insulation sandwiched between metal interior and exterior panels. Much better insulation than the uninsulated "roll up" kind.

Use "cold weather" type fluorescent lights. The cheapie things at the "big box" stores will P1SS you off!! I used old restored cotton mill fixtures and LOTS of them (90+) in my 4500 square foot shop, all sectioned where I can turn the rows on/off in half shop sections.

I did not want windows in my shop or my "living quarters" because it makes an easy place for a thief to see what you have and break in.

Overkill with electrical and plumbing for sure!

I have my air compressor inside, both in my company shop and my home shop. It is much better on the compressor, due to less temperature fluctuations, less condensation (from temp changes) and no chance of any condensation freezing. Commercial compressors are no where near as noisy as the cheapie "homeowner" type because they spin at lower rpm. Get an overkill, best you can afford commercial compressor. You will NOT regret it.

I would put a security/fire alarm on the place since you will be away so often. If you are going to go total electric, you may want to consider a back up generator. I grew up in a total electric house and swore I would NEVER own one of my own. I have as many gas (LP) appliances as are offered. If you get a big tank, you will only have to fill it once a year. I have a 500 gallon for my house and a 500 for my shop. I have a dual fuel heat pump/gas furnace in my house and my "living quarters" in my shop, with plans for a waste oil heater and LP heat in the shop. I recently added a woodstove in the house. Multiple ways to heat are great! If you depend solely on one source and the market changes for that source, you are "stuck" with higher market prices. If I were in a colder climate, I would have gone for floor heat, powered by multiple fuel sources.

Sounds like you will have a nice place! Good luck!

 

[MVenditti]

I agree with most of what he said here, with exceptions.

I have the "panel type" roll up doors (on tracks) because they have foam insulation sandwiched between metal interior and exterior panels. Much better insulation than the uninsulated "roll up" kind.

Use "cold weather" type fluorescent lights. The cheapie things at the "big box" stores will P1SS you off!! I used old restored cotton mill fixtures and LOTS of them (90+) in my 4500 square foot shop, all sectioned where I can turn the rows on/off in half shop sections.

I did not want windows in my shop or my "living quarters" because it makes an easy place for a thief to see what you have and break in.

Overkill with electrical and plumbing for sure!

I have my air compressor inside, both in my company shop and my home shop. It is much better on the compressor, due to less temperature fluctuations, less condensation (from temp changes) and no chance of any condensation freezing. Commercial compressors are no where near as noisy as the cheapie "homeowner" type because they spin at lower rpm. Get an overkill, best you can afford commercial compressor. You will NOT regret it.

I would put a security/fire alarm on the place since you will be away so often. If you are going to go total electric, you may want to consider a back up generator. I grew up in a total electric house and swore I would NEVER own one of my own. I have as many gas (LP) appliances as are offered. If you get a big tank, you will only have to fill it once a year. I have a 500 gallon for my house and a 500 for my shop. I have a dual fuel heat pump/gas furnace in my house and my "living quarters" in my shop, with plans for a waste oil heater and LP heat in the shop. I recently added a woodstove in the house. Multiple ways to heat are great! If you depend solely on one source and the market changes for that source, you are "stuck" with higher market prices. If I were in a colder climate, I would have gone for floor heat, powered by multiple fuel sources.

Sounds like you will have a nice place! Good luck!

They're not cheap but the roll up doors also come insulated if you want them.

 

[rholcom2]

EricBu12 - I am saying that $65K will get you the entire structure along with garage doors, concrete floors, and all underslab plumbing.



All others - Thank you very much for your suggestions.



I did pick up a 500 gal LP tank to fuel my Electric Heat Pump w/ LP Gas Backup. Also, to light the shop I plan on installing 12 (3 rows of 4) T8 56w 8' (w/ 4 - 4' bulbs) fixture. The ceiling and walls in the shop area are to be white metal siding, so fairly good reflection for the light. I did not opt for the in-floor heat, with my lifestyle all the heating and cooling guys cautioned me. They mentioned the glycol in the system to keep from freezing but the system would be required to be drained at the very least annually, and the Glycol would be cost prohibitive for me (According to them). .



I just retured to work from a 4 day wiring binge. This weekend I will return to finish up running the coax (for Satellite and Antenna) to several rooms, the shop, and up to where the dish will be mounted. Also, run some phone line and do the firestopping. I have the full in-wall/above ceiling inspection scheduled for Monday (1/25/10). After that will take off with Insulation and Drywall. I have spoke with several insulation contractors, they urge me to do 1/2" - 1" of the closed cell foam on the exterior walls of the living quarters. The remainder will be batt insulation and the ceiling will be blow-in. If memory serves the ceiling will be an R-44 and walls will be an R-26. I will take some more photos this weekend and uploatd to "my photos" listed below in my signature.



Thanks fellow TDR'ers for your suggestions.

 

[Dieselnut59]

That is great that you decided to go with propane and a large tank. Fill it in the Summer when propane is cheapest and it should carry you through the year. I have a 500 gallon for my house and a 500 for the shop, with gas water heater, stove, furnace and clothes dryer in both. I plan propane heat for the actual shop area in the future, along with a waste engine oil heater.

 

[rholcom2]

Yes, and I actually purchased my own tank so I can buy from any and all companies.



Those waste oil heaters are pretty cool. I ran across a guy (And actually saw his set up) who heats a 50'X90' Pole Barn (thats as nice as your and mine living room, its drywalled and everything), His house (probably ~2,500 SF) and his pool with a waste oil furnace. He said a typical winter would require 2,500 gal of waste oil. The night I was there we were in the pole barn and the outside temp was ~18, the barn was HOT!! He used the waste oil furnce to heat water in his radiant floor heat.

 

[rholcom2]

Thanks Dl5treez!!

Thanks for the suggestions Dl5treez... . figure I will answer them 1 by 1.



1. Pour the thickest concrete floor you can afford.

We have a 5" floor with re-mesh in the floor, I hope that is plenty. 2. There is no such thing as too many electrical outlets.

Yes, we will have 5 different 20Amp circuits inside the shop area. In addition I have a 200Amp box within the shop that serves as a disconnect for my main power coming in. This box does not have a single run in it, so I have plenty of space for "future" runs!3. There is not such things as "too tall'

I have 1 - 14' door with a 16' ceiling. I dont know that I will get into anything bigger than that.

4. . If you go with roll up doors, spend the money on the true 'roll up' style, not the large panel type on tracks that just take up space.

I have 2 - 9'x10' insulated traditional garage doors. They are what is called "high lifted", they go up along the wall then across the ceiling. The large 12'x14' is a traditional insulated panel door that goes back along the ceiling.

5. Use the highest R fact insulation you can afford.

The ceiling will be an R44, Shop walls R19, and living quarter walls an R26. 6. Lights, lights, and more lights. No shadows. Light that baby up.

Spoke with a friend of mine regarding lighting. He is an expereienced electrician and routinely "re-lamps" factories/warehouses/commerical spaces. He suggested I go with 3 strips of 4 lights each; floruescent T8, 56Watt fixtures. Also suggested that I go with the 8' fixtures the utilize the 4' bulbs. That way I am not moving/storing/installing such large bulbs. He claimed that I would not be disappointed in the light I would get off of the number he gave. 6a. Use flourescents.

Definately T8 High Output. 7. Fire-rated 'fireboard' "sheet rock". Especially if you have living quarters.

I am required to utilize 5/8" sheet rock on each side of the wall dividing the living quarters from the shop area.

8. Invest in a high quality air circulation system, with filtration.

Humm..... I had a heat pump with LP gas back up installed in the living quarters. I had not even thought of doing so in the shop. Dont know what value would be added by doing so. Maybe I am not following you. 9. If you go with underfloor heat, use the glycol with PEX. Stay away from hard plumbing and the electrical grid elements.

I may be sorry in the coming years, but with my lifestyle I was urged to stay away from any in slab heating system. Therefore, I deleted it from the project. 10. Real windows, that open. Like a house.

Definately, we bought Andersen Low E double hung windows.

11. Real siding, like a house. Hardi-plank is nice.

We went with barn metal..... dont know how well Hardi-plank would have worked given our framing method... I will give you the Hardi-plank would have looked nicer

12. Put in the heaviest electrical service you can afford.

I have 2 - 200Amp breaker boxes, one is serving merely as a disconnect prior to the service going under the slab.

13. Plan ahead with plumbing. Easier to plumb now than remember you wanted a washer/dryer later on and break out the Hilti.

It will be a full blown house, we have washer dryer, 2 full bathrooms, the one accessable by the shop has a urinal!!14. cold AND hot running water at multiple stations in the shop.

I will have 1 location within the shop and one outside. 14a. Use PEX plumbing. I'll never go back to copper pipe.

Pex is in, I love having a home run for every appliance. Now I can not only remove the hose from my "frost free" hydrants but I can shut off the entire run and simply leave it open.

15. There is no such thing as too big.

Hear ya, I have a 44x48 shop. Already wish it were a bit bigger.

 

[Dieselnut59]

I purchased my two 500 gallon propane tanks to. That is the wise way to do it, so, as you mentioned, you can shop around at fill up time. I really went for overkill on my electrical panel. I have a 400 amp 3 phase main panel, split off to two 100 amp sub panels. One of the 100 amp panels is for nothing but shop lights, the door openers and a couple receptacles. The other one is for the office/living/utility area and the shop receptacles along its exterior wall. As i mentioned, I have OVERKILL lighting. All "old school" 4 foot 40 watt fluorescents with the old school preheat ballasts/starters and the porcelain reflectors. I have close to 100 of them, a mixture of 3 bulb and 2 bulb style. I also went with 5" of fiber reinforced concrete. I am hoping to buy the adjoining property and it has a 40x80 foot open pole barn on it. I will probably go more with a "logical" 150 or 200 amp single phase panel there. This will cause me to have three separate power bills though!

Sounds like you have quite a nice shop.

 

[rscurtis]

rholcom2, what is the necessity to drain the glycol every year? When I lived on LI and updated my heating system (OHW with baseboard), I ran EG at about 40% concentration. After about twelve years, I changed the system to the same concentration of Dexcool, received better heat transfer and was able to lower the boiler temperature. I used old B&G circulators and never had to repair one. Prior to selling the house, I converted to a gas system with a new boiler (added Cryotech to that one), but the 20 year old Weil-Mcclane was like brand new inside and never leaked a drop, even though that model was prone to leaks. The only advice I would ad is that if you use EG, leak test the system with water first, as you don't want to solder on an EG system once it's been filled. At soldering temperatures, it's flammable.

 

[ChrisOlson]

flourescents.

Hello



flourescents. in My Shop I took a piece of advice from a older gentleman whu suggested using those Cheaper SCR fired lights that have a plug on the wire and wiring up the the cieling with outlets instead of hard wireing the lights in. I took his advice and did that in 4 years I have not had to change a fixture I have 3 spares in case it took 3 years before I started having to change the light bulbs but no fixture yet If I had to change the fixture then all i do is un plug and remove 2 screws holding the fixture in place and reversing the procedure.



in the old style fixtures they have Ballasts in them. and they go out replacing them is a pain in the be hind.



just my 2 cents worth.



Chris