Plate help...?

[Ben Rumson]

I put in a #4 plate and thoroughly LOVE it. It's razor sharp throttle response and smooth power from start all the way through.



Only problem is, I get too much smoke while towing up a steep hill and when getting on the upper end of the pedal. I checked with my mechanic and he said the reason why there's so much smoke is because he previously set up the pump to fuel more heavily and said that I was basically double dipping.



I'm probably going to get an AFE Mega Cannon - slight desrease in smoke. I cannot afford a larger turbo or intake manifold. With this in mind, is there a different plate that will perform better than stock without adding so much fuel/smoke? Better fuel curve/shape not necessarily as much?



I realize that there's always a trade off - this comes with this and can't have one without the other.



What experience/advise would you give? Please review my signature when making recommendations.



Thanks.

 

[sewman]

Well..... a #5 plate will smoke less,so will DD#2's,instead of #3's

you could slide your plate back . 030-. 040 & see what happens

maybe more till it smokes less,another thing?How much boost are you getting more boost = less smoke,

I have basicially the same truck & get a nice gray smoke @42 lbs boost.

Bob

 

[R.ebel]

You might also want to check for boost leaks.

Also if your turbo isn't already running out of its effiency map you can get a little more boost by backing out the screw in the boost elbow. This will lower the boost signal to your wastegate making it open later giving you more boost. More boost with the same level of fueling=less smoke

 

[drawson]

How much boost are you making? WOT? When towing?



Even as hot as I am I can tow with little to no smoke after I start moving. If it is just smoke at the beginning it can be reduced by adjust the AFC leaner.

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

A minor point probably, is that more heavily worked injectors like 3s may give more smoke when you are leaning on them.

The main problem, and the key is that you are getting the smoke when towing uphill, is the plate. To get enough fuel out of that little pump, you are bringing some in very late in the crankshaft rotation. The piston is too far down to burn it efficiently. you camshaft profile is also not as good as what Lawrence (DD) and I have developed, and that would help smoke some. An afc spring would help too. However, if you are still smoking at full boost, it is most likely that fuel is coming in too late. Also the little turbo is getting the intake charge hot (fewer molecules of oxy in each psi), and the little 2. 5" outlet feeding the exhaust pipe is also restrictive.



Bottom line, to reduce smoke either reduce fueling (either accel pedal or shove the plate back toward the firewall), or improve the air system to help burn it better.



Joe

signature eaten by the server, hope the 600 hp isn't gone too

 

[Jim Fulmer]

I concur with Joe and his Ideas, mine just has a slight haze at max boost (36 lbs) with the plate set in stock location.



Jim

 

[Ben Rumson]

Boost never above 30...

I'm not absolutely positive here, but I'm pretty sure that while towing last weekend, I never got above 25 or 30 psi. (My guage goes to 60). Normal city driving without a trailer I'm getting around 10 - 12 psi boost.



I re-tightened the clamps at each of the 4 rubber charge air connectors as a routine measure a few month's ago, but did not check the connections with soapy water while the truck was running or anything like that.



What's the best way to check the gaskets on the lower and upper side of the grid heater?



Also, where else should I check?



I will hook up to one of our trailers this weekend and run some tests and make note of the psi's and take better notes on when and what types of smoke I'm getting.



I'll get some better numbers and post a reply tomorrow.



Thanks for the help.

 

[R.ebel]

Leak testing

I made an adaptor the goes on the inlet of the turbo out of a 4"-3" sewer pipe connector (FERNCO) and some 3" PVC water pipe with an end cap. Tapped the end cap for an airline fitting. Be sure to regulate your air down to 10 PSI or less. It is also a good idea to prelube your turbo, it will be spinning due to the air small amount of air that gets past the valves and rings.

 

[Ben Rumson]

R.ebel ...?

I'm having a hard time visualizing what your home-made unit is doing... ?



Do you hook your 10psi air hose to the end of the cap (same side as the air filter) and then gradually crank up the pressure and watch the psi guage inside the cab and look,listen, feel for leaks anywhere between the home-made air inlet and the intake manifold?



I just took my truck out for a dry run without a trailer and the psi never got above 26 or 28 psi. I backed out the elbow screw 1/2 turn and it didn't seem to make any difference.



I should be getting alot more than this, shouldn't I ??? Supposing there's no leaks, what else could be the problem? Is there another adjustment somewhere? Sorry for the questions, I'm on a new learning curve here. Thanks for your patience and help.



Foot note: I installed a new AFE tonight just prior to the dry run. Still alot of grey smoke through the entire run from 0 to WOT and 80 mph. Temps were about 150-200 degrees lower and the restriction guage never moved off zero. I got the kit for $178. Nicely finished. Top quality filter and mounting hardware. Much better quality than I had invisioned from viewing posted pics on their web page and TDR members.



I washed and cleaned my K&N two days ago and even with it freshly cleaned, it was still drawing 7 pounds restriction.

 

[drawson]

Tighten the screw not loosen it. Your boost seems low for the set up your running, I would think you would have about 32-36 PSI at WOT.

 

[R.ebel]

Ben,

The Fernco sewer connector is a rubber reducing connector that reduces from 4" to 3". The 4" end slips directly onto the on the intake side of the turbo and is secured with a hose clamp. On the 3" inch side I put in a 3" cap that was tapped for an airline fitting, this is also secured with a hose clamp. Any leaks will be easy to find



I agree with Drawson in that you should be getting 32-36 psi at or around see level with the mods you've got.



It is also possible (but rather unlikely) that your wastegate is not closing all the way shue pressure t and is bypassing some of the exhaust that would normaly be driving the turbo.

 

[Forrest]

Ben, unless I read you wrong , you loosened/backed out/allowed more airflow thru the elbow. That allows the wastegate to open earlier. On my elbow, clockwise shut's off the airflow & raises boost. One test is to remove the line @ the input to the wastegate & plug off the hose. That should be close to max boost.

 

[Ben Rumson]

Copy that...

My truck's been at a mechanics all weekend so I haven't had time to check things any further with the boost. Thanks for the correction on the hex nut adjustment direction. I was backing the hex nut out rather than in.



I took my truck to my mechanic to put in some helicoils at the AFC housing where I stripped and re-threaded them a few days ago. I didn't trust the new taps and didn't dare drill and helicoil the housing myself. I'd much rather pay shop rate to tinker on an expensive part than screw it up and get stuck with a much bigger bill and the kicking myself in the butt routine.



He called me yesterday afternoon and said that he found a very small leak at the elbow hose clamp, but the boost still was not coming up. He was going to check the wategate to see if it was closing and also suggested that we adj. the overhead again in case the valves weren't seating well enough.



I'm at 4580 feet elevation. I hope I can get in the 36+ range - I'd love to get that #4 plate back in. It was soo responsive.



Thanks for the help. I'm going to make an inlet adapter and learn how to use it. Thanks R. ebel.



Dee, Hope your match went well yesterday.

 

[Ben Rumson]

Originally posted by drawson

Tighten the screw not loosen it. Your boost seems low for the set up your running, I would think you would have about 32-36 PSI at WOT.

I got my truck back two days ago. We ran the overhead (valves) to made sure that we weren't getting any thing past them. A few of the Exhaust Valves were out a little. I also put in new exhaust manifold gaskets and a turbo intake gasket last night. They were leaking a little.



Dee, you're right on the money. I can now get 34 psi at WOT. Lower gears hit 30-32 psi and when it hits the upper gears I can get 34 psi.



I haven't had time to block the waste gate completely to see what happens.



At moderate launch I get lots of Grey Haze and a fair amount of smoke. At WOT I get LOTS of Grey Haze. Even hitting it a bit to chagne lanes causes alot of black smoke. I'm leaving a pretty good cloud of smoke behind me just about any time I hit the pedal with a deliberate push.



I still have not yet dared put my #4 back in. The biggest improvement in the stock over the #4 now is that the stock place doesn't put out lots of BLACK smoke once you're up to 50-70 mph like the #4 was doing.



... heaven forbid... I'm I looking at a turbo? Ii can't afford one. I'd have a hard time scraping enough for a 16cm housing right now.



Will a 16 cm housing alone make much difference or will I eventually have to go to an better/bigger turbo?

 

[Ben Rumson]

UPDATE

With the stock plate back in... (#4 pulled)



Still A LOT of black smoke when traveling 40 mph at constant throttle/coast and I lean on the pedal a little to get the truck up to 55mph. Rather than down-shifting (hard pedal) I just lean on the throttle a little, the engine keeps the higher gear, and tries to dig/lug it's way up and get going faster. This makes a very dense large black cloud of smoke.



Also a fairly good cloud, but not as dark and not as big if I'm going highway speeds (55 +) and stomp on it.



Once boost kicks in and the rpms and boost are running together it's much better - only a slight haze.



Is this the typical tell tell signs that I need a larger turbo so the boost will kick in earlier and provide more air???



If so, how much will it help? All but eliminate the "lugging logie" (as I affectionately call it)?



Again, this is with the stock plate back in.



Please help.