Pledge of Allegiance: Unconstitutional

[RonaldLarson]

tO CONTINUE...

There is absolutely no part of the document which declares that a separation of church and state must exsist. The document simply states that the state must not dictate to the people, a state mandated religion. The Constitution was founded on the reality that the founders understood and revered the fact that God could only preserve and save this nation in times of crisis.

That freedom which we enjoy allows anyone to restrain from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. It also guarantees the right of the rest of us to recite the pledge.

What do some folks not understand about individual rights?

Ron

 

[Bill Lins]

For BK and any of the rest of y'all who are offended by the phrase "In God We Trust- if it'll make you feel better, just gather up all items in your posession bearing the offending phrase and forward them to me for proper disposal. I'm glad to be of help!

 

[Big_Daddy_T]

Last time i checked it was a democracy. Put it to a vote and let the people decide. The majority has always set the rules. I have never said the pledge due to religous convictions but it enrages me to see one person could take it away. I feel like the walls are closing in. Every day they take one more of our freedoms away. I do not like some suit 3000 miles away dictating to me what I can and cannot do. Im tired of this sue happy attitude that has been adopted by the never satisfied. The tree huggers and the commies are taking away all my hobbies. Im suffocating. Im gonna sue.

 

[Champane Flight]

Some

The word God was not written into the Pledge until the fiftys. It does not hurt me in any way and basiclly means higher power. If it said Christ or Allah it would bother me. To me it was another waste of tax money to have them spend the time to figure it out!



I guess they passed the school voucher thing to. Now we all can pay for the religious docrination of children? As if they are not already learning weird things in state run schools?

 

[BK]

Bill - good one!



Big_Daddy_T , couldnt agree with you more. It also seems that justice and representation is directly propotional to your wealth. Here on LI, the wealthy commonly get their way. . beachs shutdown, access denied, land chained off. Shooting ranges and flying fields getting closed down cause some idiots decided to buy and build $1m homes on the land behind the range (idiots,, don't buy the house if it's next to the range... . but nnnnoooo- buy then sue to close down the range or flying field). No bikini's to be worn by a gal when she's walking on mainstreet of the Hamptons!





It doesnt bother me because it's "God" - it's made me wonder cause it's supposed to be seperation between church and state.

Champane Flight said it very well. Those are - inpart - some of my thoughts.



I dont want the Pledge to be unconstitutional!!!!



I understand individual rights.



But if you live here, want to be citizen of the USA, want to have all these rights, freedoms & protection... you should be here because of the love of this country and there should be no reason not to Pledge your allegance (sp?) to this country. If you wont - get out. Lets not let religion get in the way of making that Pledge. Cause it is the indivual's right to pratice their religous believes. But if you don't want to be a patriot or rather you are ANTI USA... . there's no room in the USA for you (it has nothing todo with religion).



(of course there are exceptions, like friendly neighboors on work visa's and visiting tourists who come to visit and see and sample our great nation... those that come in piece with friendship)

 

[FATCAT]

You don't like God, then give up your rights!

Please review the Declaration of Independence before stating that there is no place for God in this gov't. Everyone is focusing in on the Constitution, but the Declaration of Independence came first and is the 'Charter" you might say before the by-laws were created. Here it is stated that all of our "unalienable Rights" come from our Creator.



----------------

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.



We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, ... ... .....

-------------------



I would hope that this prick in CA and all Atheists would happly give up their Constitutional rights and have their rights dictated by those in Congress since that would be the logical next step where our rights come from if not from God.

Congress would alter our "rights" whenever they feel like it and the courts would be constantly making rulings base on a Constitution that changes monthly.



I hope that soon the Marxists (liberals), elitest, and other tyrant wanta-bes will be thrown out of this country (or dumped at sea), like we did after the Revolutionary War ... otherwise there is no doubt that the USA will shortly become another 3rd world hell hole.

 

[JSmith]

All the Commie Lib Ba$tards that don`t like what is going on in this country should leave. WE NEED TO ONE COMMON LANGUAGE.

That is ENGLISH... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

If you are in this Country by illegal means you should be deported in 48hrs.





I am pi$$ed

 

[DHawthorne]

Those judges out there are wacko's.

All the other liberals in congress and the senate rushed outside to show their opposition for the rulling, however, the liberals who did this know if they did not, they would not stand a chance at getting re-elected. Ask them to remove the two judges who did that, want?? why?? who?



Everyone has a differant point of view on many things. Personally, I think it was BS and they should be removed from their seats. Its only a matter of time before they will be back in power after letting 10mil more voters in the country via the borders. All those people can get business loans, college money, food stamps, and free medical and dental, while many of us are loosing our teeth and can't affort to send our kids to school.



my two cents

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

"Freedom of religion"

is not the same as

"Freedom from religion"

 

[Morphious]

Do I sense a need for a good old fashioned TDR get together in Washington DC and smoke the *******s out?





Morph.

 

[Sregorb]

Anyone else find this funny?

Hmmm, it's funny but these are the same people that don't seem to be offended by taking all that money with "IN GOD WE TRUST" printed in big bold letters on it... ...



Where's their push to ban money from their campaigns?



Brian

 

[TxDieselKid]

Originally posted by Sregorb

Hmmm, it's funny but these are the same people that don't seem to be offended by taking all that money with "IN GOD WE TRUST" printed in big bold letters on it... ...



Where's their push to ban money from their campaigns?



Brian

This was addressed on the first page, and the same guy that thought this up is going for money next.



Being as one of my best friends is an atheist(not a satanist) I would have to say it is a fair decision. Does this mean I hate the US and all it stands for? NO! Does this mean that I am NOT a very christian man? NO! Knowing and understanding my friend, I can see very well where Joel(first page) is comming from.



I think I like Joe Donnally's post best so far on this thread.



Andrew

 

[DHawthorne]

I agree, lets go smoke em out.

 

[BK]

Originally posted by Joseph Donnelly

"Freedom of religion"

is not the same as

"Freedom from religion"

So does that mean to be a good patriot, we have to be religous?

or

Practice a religion?

 

[Sregorb]

This is NOT intentioned to inflame anyone's belief's! This is simply a conversation to draw comments from another's viewpoints about which I don't understand.





But to an atheist wouldn't any reference to (in atheist belief-a fictitious) God just be a moot, meaningless bunch of gibberish? If you're stating, "One nation, under God..... " Couldn't you just as meaningfully say, "One nation, under the Universal laws of Physics... . " or even better, "One nation, under all that is known and unknown... . "???



And how could that be construed to be "forcing" a religion on someone. If you don't believe it, find an alternative and be the exeption to the rule. Don't try and force a majority to change the rule. It's like the people trying to rewrite history to be less 'offensive'. Welcome to the real-world, it's sometimes a VERY cruel and offensive place. Case in point-gender neutral bibles. Can't we tell stories as close to the original (therefore hopefully most accurate) way rather than constantly revising to meet what the 'flavor of the day' dictates? We all deal with offense worldwide (some physically, some mentally, some politically), and it's NEVER going to be perfect.



I'll second Donnelly's post. Very profound.



Andrew-Sorry, didn't see first mention while skimming thru.



Brian

 

[Sregorb]

Quote "So does that mean to be a good patriot, we have to be religous?

or

Practice a religion?"





I think this it's just a reflection that you can become a patriot by practicing any religion (or none). But you CANNOT realistically consider it a right to not have to deal with people or policies that do practice a religion different from you... .

Majority rules. If the majority votes to put bozo the clown on the one dollar bill, chances are the next run of money will have it... Political power (or loss thereof) still gets alot of input from the masses.



Brian

 

[RonaldLarson]

Geez

Why should the majority of Americans have to aplogize for including God in their morning pledge to uphold the values, morality and pride in the flag which stands for the country they love? You guys whom have not served in the U. S. military are so far removed from spirituality that you don't understand what is at stake here. You have not sacrificed one hour of your life to the defense nor ready state of the military which protects you from all the evil that resides in the world. You are insulated from reality. Have you ever seen or visited the Arizona Monument at Pearl Harbor? Have you seen the graves at Arlington? Have you seen the Vietnam Wall in D. C. ? These monuments are tribute to the eagerness of young men and women to protect this country's freedoms from outside attack. Now, we find ourselves attacked from the inside. I ask again, what is the logic in attacking our basic freedoms?

Yes, you are apparent in your ignorance of the meaning of the flag which stands for all that we believe in. This country was not founded on the athiest, buddist, christian, nor islamic religions, it was founded on the belief that God ( in the hearts of it's founders) was present in the hearts of the founding fathers when the Constitution was written.

Look, it is not up for debate. The diaries and footnotes of the founding fathers specifically states the intent and the meaning of the content of the Constitution. Why are we even discussing this? You can be an aethiest, or anything else, the pledge of allegience is not about religion, it's about the United States of America. If you have a problem with that, and if you have a problem with freedom of speech, and if you have a problem with morality, patriotism and real freedom, than for God's sake, (oops)find somewhere else to live. We ain't gonna change this thing for you! This is a republic, and not a democracy. How's about if I get the ninth circus of appeals to make it illegal for you to enjoy your very favorite past time because it offends me? Like that?

This is what this whole deal is all about!

Ron

 

[Sregorb]

News article

I didn't write it. I just ran across it while looking at the news and found it interesting and on topic.



Brian





Thank You, 9th Circuit Court!

Mike Gallagher

Thursday, June 27, 2002



How nice. The 9th U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals has decided that our Pledge of Allegiance is unconstitutional. Schoolchildren in no fewer than nine Western states could be affected by this asinine decision from a pair of loony liberals who wear black robes and try to destroy American values on a regular basis.

Turn back the clock and pretend you're living in the United States nine months after the attack on Pearl Harbor. Can you imagine what would happen if some judges decided that children would be harmed by reciting the Pledge during World War II? Do you think Americans would stand for it?



It's time to take an aggressively optimistic stand over things like this. Instead of beating our chests and banging our heads against the wall, we should remember a few things.



First off, this ruling could very well be reversed. The Supreme Court has had to intervene and straighten out a mess left by this kooky bunch of San Francisco liberals on more than one occasion.



Secondly, I really think that the average citizen is starting to finally get a fire lighted under his fanny over these kinds of anti-American occurrences.



Most of us aren't forgetting that we're in the middle of a war. And whether it's Peter Jennings and ABC-TV refusing to allow Toby Keith's patriotic song to be performed on their July Fourth special, or PBS-TV banning Charlie Daniels' musical tribute to the heroes of September 11, or this latest outrage coming from the 9th Circuit Court, we're starting to pay attention.



We're keeping track. And we're taking names.



It's been a long time since we've been passionate about America. Our senses have been dulled by a liberal press, a vulgar Hollywood, a presidential cesspool, and a bunch of judges who thumb their noses at decent, hard-working, tax-paying, God-fearing Americans.



I really believe that we're headed for a showdown of epic proportions. We're going to wake up and vote out liberals like Tom Daschle and Hillary Clinton. We're going to go back to being a nation that is proud of its patriotism and refuses to be ashamed of its Christian foundation.



I think that instead of complaining about the 9th U. S. Circuit Court of Appeals decision, we should thank these pitiful judges. Thanks to them, the tide is turning. The previously silent majority will start to roar. And we're finally going to reclaim our great country again. The loony liberals have held it hostage long enough.



God bless America.



http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/6/26/195734.shtml

 

[Power Wagon]

Originally posted by BK





So does that mean to be a good patriot, we have to be religous?

or

Practice a religion?

Absolutely not. It doesn't define what the people must do... It defines the government's position... It can neither discourage, nor enforce a religious view. And in our philosophy, the people rule... and yet, they are subordinate to God, not the government.

 

[BK]

To focus on history and intent:



"God" has not been in the Pledge for the majority of it's being. It wasn't in during Pearl Harbor.



It was added during the heat of the cold war for politcal reasons. Nothing more. Shame all of this because of some cold war antics from some politicians back in 1954.



It seems this conversation might have lost focus and becamce patriotic Vs a form of state religion and believe based on the beliefs of our forefathers.



Play with words all you like, invoke all the feelings of sorry you can, BUT people died for this nation and the freedoms it stands for, NOT for religions that believe in "God".



Yes for the record I'm Catholic, I believe in God. But my belief in God has nothing todo with my love for my country and the sacrifices I've made for it in my own life. You don't need to carry an AR15 to have made sacrifices.



It reminds me of that ahole Jerry Farwell when he was interviewed on TV about this. . all he could keep refering too and saying in as many ways as he could..... - if you dont believe in God. . your evil and bad and anti American - ... he's another one that needs to be smoked out.