Engine/Transmission (1994 - 1998) Plugged cooling nozzles

[RPerrenoud]

I finished disassembling the engine tonght and found that the cooling nozzles on cylinders #6, #5, #4, were plugged. I had first blamed this train wreck on the propane system thinking it was out of adjustment. However I never heard any detination going on before this failure occured. If you want to see pictures of the damaged piston send me a E mail and I will send you the pictures. (perrenou@easilink.com) I could not figure out how to post them on this fourm.

 

[Deezul1]

Was there a Fram filter on this engine at any time?

 

[Snow man]

iIts weird how it happened right after the initial runs with the 16 housing. How are the cyl walls?what filter did you have on the engine throughout its life. This sounds like another defective oil filter.

 

[T. Baker]

Wow, SCAREY. I wish there were a way to check the cooling nozzels without dissasembling the engine. Please tell us what you think they are plugged with and how it happened.

Treven.

 

[RPerrenoud]

Yes there has been Fram filters on this engine before, I first started with Mobil One 407 filters then I could not find them any more so I started using Fram this was evidently a big mistake and exspensive mistake. So to every one out there do buy a quality oil filter!!!!!!!!!!!!!. I had thought the Fram was a quality filter.

The cooling nozzles are not very big in diameter about the size of the tube in a ball point pen, and are located coming off of the main bearing journal, the tube is inserted through the journal under the main bearing shell at a angle.

 

[Dieselnerd]

RP, Fram has paid for these rebuilds for others in the past. It's certainly worth following up with Fram to see what can be done. Might even buy you a new short block.

 

[Snow man]

I would follow up with fram,after the filter on the motor now has been checked,there is no proof at this point that the fram filter did it. Any filter can come apart,if its defective,not just fram's.

 

[Dieselnerd]

Good point Snow Man. RP, I hope you saved your filter. I would think in most cases the filter currently on the engine caused the problem. According to other posts I've read, the next thing that can clog the cooling nozzles is a piece of that foil from the top of oil jugs that can get poured in with the oil when you change it.

 

[The patriot]

I've had a few frams on my engine before I heard their bad rep. Is there any way to reverse flush it? Anything I can do, other than dismantling it?

I have no reason to suspect anything is wrong, but I dont like suprises.

Eric

 

[RPerrenoud]

There is no way to back flush the nozzles, like in the previous post they are about the size of a ink pen tube and protrude through the main bearing journal pointed at the bottom of the pistons. The debris that I found in the tubes was some what difficult to push out I used an torch tip cleaner to push the debris on through and caught it in my hand and put in a clean plastic sample bottle. It is deffinetley oil filter material looking at it through the plastic bottle in the sun you can see the small fiber like material at the edges of the debris. It is also packed in the hole as when it comes out it maintains a round shape, you can press on it and it breaks up really easy. I think the reason it clogs the tubes so easy is because of its physical size the oil pressure is not enough to keep the nozzles clean with the surface area after it plugs. At the time of the failure a oil filter was on this engine that is manufatured by Fram but it was not a Fram, I will not say anymore at this time about filter brands until the debis is analyzed.

 

[osmith]

Scary stuff!

Man, this is scary. I've seen a block that this happened to as well and it's nasty and $$$.



I run the mopar recommended filter and that is all I'll run. As for previous filters that have been run, how can they haunt you months later? I mean if you ran a Fram 6 months ago and have run the correct filters since, how can the Fram still plug the cooling nozzles? Wouldnt all that stuff be filtered out somehow?



The tin seals on oil jugs was also mentioned, how could a peice of this stuff make it through a filter, unless it came off as you were filling the filter with oil. I can't see how a peice of that would get through the filter system if you poured it into the oil fill tube.









Thanks for any clarification

 

[illflem]

RP, Frams may not be good for our application but they are very good about standing behind their warranty to rebuild your engine. I have known many who have with zero hassle. I just hope you haven't gone too far by removing the debris, I know if you tear the filter apart before they check it out bye-bye warranty. A rep from Fram will come to check out your engine, if the current filter isn't the one that failed have receipts for past ones handy. Hide your propane setup.

 

[T. Baker]

Oh man! Your nozzels could be plugged and the only time you are going to know about it is if you push your engine and the pistons melt. Under normal driving the pistons will probably be ok without oil cooling. Oil filters are supposed to save enginges not kill them!!

Can the nozzels be checked with the pan removed?

 

[Snow man]

IMO,a stock truck pushed hard towing in the mountains will melt a piston if the cooling jets are blocked. this is especially true with an HO truck,in this situation even a stock truck will hit 1400 degrees at alititude,this for an extended period will do a piston in.

 

[Extreme1]

Originally posted by T. Baker

Under normal driving the pistons will probably be ok without oil cooling.

I'm pretty sure this isn't the case. Remember that some of these are only partially blocked and failing under extreme conditions. The first ones discovered were on stock trucks.

 

[T. Baker]

Well the reason I thought the pistons would be ok under normal light driving conditions without oil cooling is because there were older turbocharged Cummins engines that had no oil cooling on the pistons like C190s JT6s & 262s. I gues it depends on what is considered normal. Most people on this site run hard.

 

[Blakers]

Originally posted by RPerrenoud

The debris that I found in the tubes was some what difficult to push out I used an torch tip cleaner to push the debris on through and caught it in my hand and put in a clean plastic sample bottle. It is deffinetley oil filter material looking at it through the plastic bottle in the sun you can see the small fiber like material at the edges of the debris. It is also packed in the hole as when it comes out it maintains a round shape, you can press on it and it breaks up really easy.

I would stop right where you are are call Fram! Don't clean out any more nozzels than you already have and make sure you save everything. They should be able to identify the clogging material. You probably should have a witness there when they come. Don't let Fram take all the evidence until you are sure they're gonna do something about your engine.



Blake

 

[gitchesum]

Hey guys. RPerrenoud sent me the pictures of the piston damage.



Warning, these pictures are UGLY.

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[78repowerwagon]

Has anybody experianced piston meltdown caused by filters used in previous oil changes?

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

Like almost all engines, there is a filter bypass valve (p. 9-168 in the 1997 factory service manual) in case the oil is too thick (cold) or the filter is plugged. This may be how particles from oil container seals get through to the cooling nozzles.



Definitely keep all evidence, try not to disturb the engine/damaged parts any further, and call Fram. I have seen aftermarket filters on Rams before and almost always the owner expresses unconcern when I strongly recommend Fleetguard.



I hate to see this happen, and I hope Fram makes it right. You shouldn't have to be so suspicious of aftermarket filters, but in this case suspicion is warranted.



Too often some folks think I am using scare tactics when cautioning owners what to watch for, and what to avoid. Like with the exhaust manifold. . . [right, Bill?].