PM3 Competition box's

[tjpatte]

Hey All,



Just had a question for the folks running PM3 Comp box's. What is the difference between the comp's and the adjustables? I've been running the gambit of boxes (PM2, PM2 revb, and now PM3) and wondered what's up. Now that I have a Joe D clutch (everyone Bombing needs to get one) and can use the box it seems that the box rolls off on fueling above 2700 rpm. I don't tow and would like to hold a gear longer. I could give Mark a buzz but figured I would ask the folks that have them.



Thanks all.



Tom in San Diego

 

[Vaman]

TJ,



The Comp box defuels at a higher level and I believe it's 3000 RPM (I could be wrong on the exact number). Mark at TST though will setup a box to defuel at whatever point you want (watch your injection pump). The Comp box is much stronger than the PM3 but I really don't use the upper levels because it defuels so aggressively (the whole truck shakes). If you very, very, very gently come off the throttle at the upper levels it's not as bad but it's really not very usable (impressive but not practical). One last point, the Comp boxes, as I've kind of already implied, can be adjustable and it's a good thing they are. Good luck.

 

[Diesel Freak]

I think if you installed a set of larger injectors you wouyld get a little more over rev. My 275's gave me more top end, so who knows what DD2's or 3's would do

 

[Ross]

Competition PM3

I agree with the above posts. Impressive, but not practical. I also am running DD IIs, and I get into serious EGT trouble at anything over setting 3. Anything over 5 is so radical its not very driveable. People kept asking Mark for more, more, more, so he gave it to them (us). Mine stays on zero or 1 nearly all the time. If I want to do a sideways gear change into 4th, I put it on "5". I never use anything higher.

 

[tjpatte]

Thanks for the inputs folks!!



Vanman, is the shuddering like when you kill the cruise without having your foot on the gas/Diesel? I would just like to have it pull to a higher rpm before I shift. I'm planning (once I save the money) for a setup like yours, a 40 and DDIII's (been talking to Joe) and I should be done there.



Diesel Freak, you got me wondering (since I have stock injectors for now) what the difference injectors will make. I would like to not have to get another box (cost reasons) if I don't have too. Not trying to crush everything on the road, just trying to make it fun.



Ross, I'm hoping the 40 will calm the EGT's because I agree with you on the rate that they climb with my "stock" PM3 and a straight pipe "stock" exhaust and can't imagine what yours climbs like. I'll probably get the 40 and exhaust (4 in) first then do the injectors even though it might be Doggy down low, it will keep me outta EGT problems I hope. Considering the difference in cost between the 40/exhaust and injectors, the injectors will come shortly (relatively) after the 40 and exhaust.



For everyone thinking about getting an aftermarket clutch because yours slips... ... . DON"T!!! It will just make you spend more of your hard earned money on even MORE upgrades!!!!!!



BOMB on!



Tom

 

[Vaman]

TJ,



I've been running RV 275 injectors for some time now. I just recently bought BD step 4s (not installed yet because I need to replace my connector tubes also). I've been pretty happy with my performance and EGTs (even while towing). I've blown by people while towing our boat with the box on 6... the smoke isn't too bad, the power is incredible, and the noise is substantial. I know the step 4s are going to put EGTs through the roof and smoke like crazy but you just can't have enough power. lol. I also just bought the Powershot propane system which is waiting to go in. After this I'm getting short on options for upgrades (my checkbook says thank you).



Almost forgot to answer your question about the shuddering. It's kind of difficult to describe... just violent shuddering unlike anything I've ever felt in the truck. It feels very unhealthy and it's the primary reason I don't run above level 6 on my Comp box. Anyhow, best of luck to you.

 

[MikeR]

Tom,



I think you should just keep your standard PM3 and just add the DD3's or I feel you'll be in for a rude awakening on wasted money because your EGT's are just going to go up-up-up. Even with a 40 installed with DD3's and box,your EGT's now have the abilty to go higher... the higher box settings are going to be useless.



-Mike

 

[Todd T]

Tom, with the larger injectors you will be able to sail past the PM3 defueling without a problem. I started out with just the pm3 and then went to injectors. The truck is more rounded now. What I mean by that, is the PM3 on higher levels, hits hard and as Vaman said, shudders the whole truck when you let off of it. with the injectors, they pad that shock of the PM3 coming in down low, and take up for it, when it leaves off on the big end. I can still feel it coming on pretty hard, but the defueling I hardly notice now.



Ross, my EGTs only went up about 50F hotter, than with just the PM3 on 9. they stay below 1150 even towing my tractor around in 90+ weather (6000lbs). I see you have a K&N is it in the stock box or a conical style one. I made an aluminum version of the Psychotty air for my truck and it took 200F off my temps, and that was on a stock truck, before i had done anything else to it.



Vaman, I would describe the shudder as what it feels like when, in my mustang days, it would slip out of gear under power if you were too quik on the clutch, the whole car would sound like it was coming apart.



I cant hardly wait to get a clutch that will hold all this new found power of mine



I was soooo... . tempted the other night to enter a truck pull with my truck, and would have done it if I only had a clutch that would hold. there is another one this wednesday night, and on the way to work today, I was thinking if I could get a clutch and have it in in time for wednesday night.

 

[Ross]

EGTs

Todd:



I don't have the psycotty or the conical K&N, just the square one in the stock box. I have removed the goofy boot that connects it to the fender, and have drilled addtional holes in the box to allow more air in. With my box on zero (DD-IIs only), I can get to about 1350 degrees on a long pull (loaded at 24,000). It pulls just fine with just the injectors, so I leave the PM3 on 0. If I step up to 1, or 2, I just have to back out of the throttle sooner I'm afraid of the HX40. It seems like quite a few self destruct soon after install. I'm not into 1100 dollar gambles. I may end up getting Piers new HX35, or just going to a 16 cm non-wastegated exhaust housing. I haven't made my decision.



As for the clutch, my stock clutch wouldn't hold anything over setting 3 on my competition PM3. It would spin the tires in 3rd gear, and spin the clutch in 4th.



I now have a Luk ProGold... I know, I know, it's not the best one out there, but it's been holding for me, and it was pretty cheap, too. Now, my duals spin in 4th on setting 5 or 6 instead of my clutch. It's a real hoot to do a tail wagging gear change into 4th at about 40 mph!

If the clutch craps out, I'll let the board know it. It's not as good as the ceramic or brass versions out there, but it's doing ok. My guess is that if I were pulling a sled, or tried to put "level 5" power to the ground while I was loaded very heavy, the clutch would slip, but I only hammer it when empty, and the tires break loose before the clutch does. It probably wouldn't hold up to some of the more radical abusers out there!

 

[Todd T]

I argree with you Ross, the HX40's just arent what they need to be. I will stay away from them too. I almost took Bill K's truck for a ride in Muncie. But I knew if I did then I would have gone home with injectors and a turbo that weekend.



I really, am about done with my mods, I have to get a new clutch, and then the only thing I would think about, would be a better turbo.



I plan to repaint it and show it next summer and maybe lift it a few inches, but I have to wait until I build a new shop to lift it. I can only go about six inches now and it wouldnt fit in the garage. and I wont have atruck that wont fit in the garage, or is it a garage that wont fit the truck.



anyway thats the excuse I'll use for the wife.

 

[tjpatte]

Thanks for the advice folks. I think I'll keep my stock PM3 box and just do the other mods.



Haven't heard too many complaints on the stock HX 40's, just mostly the "modified ones". Will have to do some more research.



Anyone looking for a clutch I can't recommend a better one than Joe Donnelly's. I have his with a 3850-3900 # pressure plate and love it!! This thing Won't slip and Joe's a great guy to do business with.



Take care all.



Tom

 

[Todd T]

I was going to get a JD clutch until I watched four of them fail to move a sled more than half track, in Muncie.



now before you all pounce, I know that "sled pulling is the hardest thing you can do to a clutch" but you would think it could take a few times in front of the sled. I know others did that night.



A McCloud clutch actually siezed to the flywheel. that was some serious slippin there.

 

[Vaman]

In about 2 weeks I'll let you know how my South Bend does pulling a sled...

 

[tjpatte]

Todd T,



Makes me wonder what the folks were doing (i. e. how they were launching)?? Joes got about 610 hp and 1400 ft lbs and his clutch holds fine. I doubt many of these folks are making more poop than Joe. Was it the same guy or different people?



Take it easy.



Tom

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

Tom - I'm one of the guys who slipped Joe's clutch in Muncie. I know of one other guy personally (MGM) that was using Joe's clutch as well. Todd knows of I believe one other now. We were pulling a sled down a track (40,000 lbs I believe). Joe has never tested his clutch sled pulling. Here's the reason it's different - Joe's letting his clutch out at 1100 rpm or so. You can't do that pulling a sled, you have to rev up to high rpm (I tried 1800) and slip the clutch a bit to build boost and get the tires spinning. You can't get under the turbo or your done. Muncie was the first time I ever pulled a sled, I left the line on a cold clutch at 1800 (in 2nd - 4 high) and slipped the clutch and couldn't hook it so I stopped at about 20 feet and they backed the sled up for a retry. The second time I also left at 1800 (in 3rd - 4 low) and that time my clutch hooked but drug the engine down to idle and I dragged it 54 feet at 700 rpm. In hindsight I'll be doing it differently next time, I'm going to give it another shot or two at the Scheid event in August, I'll be preheating the clutch a bit and then leaving at a higher rpm, I also won't air my tires down as low as last time. The day after that pull I was drag racing the truck and had no problems with the clutch, I pulled my 35' TT home the next day, and I've been drag racing with it since. The clutch is working perfectly, if I had done that to an organic clutch it would be dead. It may just be that it's not the clutch for pulling sleds. I didn't want a full pulling clutch because I'm only going to occasionally pull, so if it doesn't hold up I can live with that.

 

[Briar Hopper]

funny how the topic went from PM3's to Hx40's to clutches...

I had to respond to the remarks about the Hx40... My stock Hx40 is doing fine, the upper power curve is insane, I've now beaten 2 Corvettes to a spot to pass, on multi-lane interstates,

But the power down low suffers from turbo lag, my 1/4 mile times suck.

With DD3 injectors, Hx40, PM3 Comp, and Van Aaken, the truck will pull my 6000lb. RV trailer, with the PM3 set on level 5. All other levels I've tried on the box while towing, send the EGT's way up... AND... . I have a Donnelly Re-Engineered Sachs clutch, same as Steve and Gene. I got what I wanted, a street clutch that would hold up to 500HP, never mind about sled pulling. Joe doesn't build the clutches, he has 'em done to his specs, hence the "re-engineered" term I came up with...

No offense, Todd T, but you're running a stock clutch, without a clutch that will hold, it can be hard to accurately test the upper limits of EGT, also you still have the Hx35, I was totally unable to use the upper levels on either the PM3 or the PowerEdge with the Hx35. When you change the injectors from 275's to whatever, you'll see your EGT's skyrocket...

Steve, you still have your 275 injectors, at what level on the the PM3 can you do a "stoplight" drag race, running up to 65-70 at WOT, and not worry about EGT's? Level 5 on mine, it comes close to 1200, sometimes 1300. Level 6, it'll go over 1400-1500 if I let it.

 

[Vaman]

Briar,



I haven't had any problems with EGTs running with my PM Comp and 275s (at level 6 constantly on the Comp box). I just started putting BD step 4's in this morning so that should change though. On a different note, my truck will be down for at least two days because one of the connector tubes from Cummins is dinged right on the pointed seating surface where it meets the injector. I can't believe my luck. . and Cummins isn't open on the weekends.





Steve,



What made you decide to come out at that RPM and that gear? I've pretty much got the same setup you do and I was going to use either 3 or 4 low. I've heard the low side of the transfer case is stronger (not sure if it's true or not). I'm kind of worried now after seeing your post. I talked to the Mitchells a couple times and they seem to come out of the hole at a very high RPM (who knows what that will do to the clutch). They're running 12vers and they're running them upwards of 4000 RPM. I was also wondering if you were considering an injector upgrade anytime soon. I liked my RV injectors... just wanted more power. Thanks in advance.

 

[Briar Hopper]

Thanks for the information, Vaman, let me know how the step 4's do... I posted that question to Steve, because he has the stock Hx35 turbo, I'm wondering what level he is able to run his box at without EGT worries. Keep in mind he has a regular PM3, although the program was slightly altered to change the defueling time at a certain rpm... Even so, I'll get a rough comparision between our trucks. Vaman, if you got time, can you find a drag strip near you and do a few 1/4 mile runs? (they usually have "test & tune" nights, on Wed. & Thurs. or Fri. , most tracks in the USA) I'd like to see if your turbo lag affects your times like it seems to do mine.

BTW, in town tonight, I tried a hard launch in 2nd gear, trying to do a burnout on dry pavement. The clutch slipped, would not hook up until I let off the go pedal... PM3 was set on level 5.

 

[Vaman]

Briar,



My lag hasn't been that bad with my 40. I remember you had some problems when it was first installed and, if I remember correctly, it was your wastegate? I'm showing boost kicking in at just above idle (no track time yet but I'm pretty happy with it). It isn't as responsive as the 35 on the low end but the upper end makes up for it IMHO. I'll let you know how the step 4's perform as soon as I get a new connector tube (I think ToddT is running this combo also). As far as the clutch issue... if it won't hook up when you're trying to do a burnout, I wouldn't try pulling a sled with it. I'm no clutch expert but I would think you'd be asking for trouble (possibly seizing?). If I may ask, what tires are you running? They can really affect how much you're putting to the ground. I am going to hit a local track pretty soon. When I saw you in Maryland, I didn't run because I didn't have the South Bend installed yet. Also, how's the Powershot doing? I've had one for two weeks and haven't installed it yet. When it cuts out at 20 lbs, is it smooth? Thanks in advance...

 

[Steve St.Laurent]

VAman, I was using a mixture of advice from Loretta Mitchell and from MGM. Loretta said to rev it up to 3000, MGM said to leave at 1800. Since Gene had pulled with this clutch before I went with his recommendation . Oh well, lesson learned! I be leaving the line higher than that the next time. As to the gear I chose that was also after talking to several people, they all run 3. 55 gears and with my 4. 10's the concensus was that 4-high 2nd would probably be about right. 4th - 4 low would be too tall.



-Steve