Poll For third Generation Engines Fuel System Only

[john3976]

In an effort to try and include everything that was said to missing from the original injector poll, I have redone the poll to show the entire fuel system from the lift pump to the fuel filter to the CP3 pump to the injectors, included is warranty voided, stock, box/programmer, 600/610 engine, 555 engine, injector failure, lift pump failure, CP3 pump failure and fuel filter problem.



Please keep in mind that the polls only allow up to 10 choices, so I did not include trucks with no failures, we are interested in the failures not the ones that have not failed.



In your text response you may state that you have a truck with no failures and everyone can also state if they used a fuel additive like Power Service, Sea Foam, ect.



Please remember to select if your truck is stock or has a box/programmer and which engine you have.

 

[Hoefler]

21,000 miles, no problem yet, run the EZ on #1 99. 9% of the time, Power Service in the gray bottle and some Lucas. Seems to like the Power Service better.

 

[john3976]

I have 18,374 miles on my 2005, I have used Power Service in it, for all but maybe 3 or 4 tanks of fuel.



I just tried Sea Foam and it seems to like the Sea Foam better then the Power Service, I notice the engine is smoother and does not makes nearly as much noise. I just bought 11 pints of the Sea Foam due to the Power Service not being available right now due to the label recall.



If the Sea Foam keeps the engine this smooth I will stick with the Sea Foam, I can get it at Northern Tool for $6. 00 dollars a pint so it ends up a wash price wise verse Power Service. Pep Boys also sells Sea Foam for $5. 99 a pint.

 

[Luken]

My 3rd gen has a vp-44 pump failure...



Seriously, What are you trying to accomplish by these threads?

 

[BHolm]

Interesting idea trying to collect data like that but how do you put it together by user? I'm not sure what the poll will tell you when done



I've had 4 3rd gen trucks. I currently own 2 still. All have been stock, no engine mods. I put 80k miles on the '03 QC HO, no fuel system problems, the '03 HO dually has 99k miles, no problems, my '05 needed an injector at 5k miles, kept it to 30k, no other problems, '06 mega, 22k and no problems. All fuel filters changed at 10k intervals, no additives.

 

[jimnance]

I have 18,374 miles on my 2005, I have used Power Service in it, for all but maybe 3 or 4 tanks of fuel.



I just tried Sea Foam and it seems to like the Sea Foam better then the Power Service, I notice the engine is smoother and does not makes nearly as much noise. I just bought 11 pints of the Sea Foam due to the Power Service not being available right now due to the label recall.



If the Sea Foam keeps the engine this smooth I will stick with the Sea Foam, I can get it at Northern Tool for $6. 00 dollars a pint so it ends up a wash price wise verse Power Service. Pep Boys also sells Sea Foam for $5. 99 a pint.

Sea Foam is a cleaner where Power Serve does several things including boosting the cetane and addding lubricity. I'd suggest using Power Service most of the time with the addition of Sea Foam on every fourth tank. Sea Foam does a great job of keeping the injectors clean.



For lubricity in my '93 I just add 16 oz of Wally Mart 2 stroke oil. At $. 97/pint it is dirt cheap and will lubricate everything. I only do this trick in the '93 since I think the common rail injectors might be too sensative to use it.



MMO is also not a bad choice, but I'd still use the Sea Foam occasionally to keep the common rail injectors clean.

 

[john3976]

Sea Foam is a cleaner where Power Serve does several things including boosting the cetane and addding lubricity. I'd suggest using Power Service most of the time with the addition of Sea Foam on every fourth tank. Sea Foam does a great job of keeping the injectors clean.



For lubricity in my '93 I just add 16 oz of Wally Mart 2 stroke oil. At $. 97/pint it is dirt cheap and will lubricate everything. I only do this trick in the '93 since I think the common rail injectors might be too sensative to use it.



MMO is also not a bad choice, but I'd still use the Sea Foam occasionally to keep the common rail injectors clean.

According to the Sea Foam can, it provides uper cylinder lube, would that not be the same thing that the Power Service does? or is the Sea Form lube not as good for the CP3 pump?



If not I will buy more power Service as soon as it is back on sale again do the Sea Form on a limited schedule.

 

[john3976]

Interesting idea trying to collect data like that but how do you put it together by user? I'm not sure what the poll will tell you when done



I've had 4 3rd gen trucks. I currently own 2 still. All have been stock, no engine mods. I put 80k miles on the '03 QC HO, no fuel system problems, the '03 HO dually has 99k miles, no problems, my '05 needed an injector at 5k miles, kept it to 30k, no other problems, '06 mega, 22k and no problems. All fuel filters changed at 10k intervals, no additives.

The poll is not perfect as you are limited to only 10 choices maximum, but by listing the voters you can find out how many stock trucks are suffering failures vs. boxed/programmer trucks, which might just help out every one.



I am not going to get into yet another argument about being your own warranty station as I believe that the manufacture under federal law is required to diagnose the problem and has to show that an aftermarket part or product was in fact the cause of the failure in order to deny warranty coverage.



A certain group in here complained that I don't have any numbers, OK lets get some numbers started, then that same group complains that it is not fair how the numbers are being collected, like I said the poll is not perfect, but what is it that you are afraid of in recording the numbers?



What if the end result ends up being that there is a part that fails no matter if the truck is stock or modded, that would place the burden of replacement on DC rather then the owner as it is a common failure.



If CP3 pumps are failing at the same rate on stock vs. modded trucks then it is not mods causing the problem it is a bad designed pump, that is something that needs to be fixed no matter if a truck is stock or modded as it effects all owners the same.



Lift Pump failures are the same, in fact if lift pumps were not a stock problem why would DC be changing them all the time? The lift pump can effect so many things down the chain of the fuel system, now we have the in tank lift pumps, some have blasted them and advised in the pages of TDR magazine to avoid them in retrofits. Why? it is the newest design that is supposed to cure the lift pump problem, has it done that yet? Don't know not enough stats, that is what polls do they give you some idea of what is going on.



I am in amazement of the fear of these polls from certain members.



One last thing, did you vote in the poll listing your stock truck with an injector failure?

 

[steved]

75k without issues... CP3 was replaced under warranty because it had started leaking (but the truck was still driveable)...



I removed the factory fuel supply system at around 60k... installed a FASS.



steved

 

[BHolm]

The poll is not perfect as you are limited to only 10 choices maximum, but by listing the voters you can find out how many stock trucks are suffering failures vs. boxed/programmer trucks, which might just help out every one.



I am not going to get into yet another argument about being your own warranty station as I believe that the manufacture under federal law is required to diagnose the problem and has to show that an aftermarket part or product was in fact the cause of the failure in order to deny warranty coverage.



A certain group in here complained that I don't have any numbers, OK lets get some numbers started, then that same group complains that it is not fair how the numbers are being collected, like I said the poll is not perfect, but what is it that you are afraid of in recording the numbers?



What if the end result ends up being that there is a part that fails no matter if the truck is stock or modded, that would place the burden of replacement on DC rather then the owner as it is a common failure.



If CP3 pumps are failing at the same rate on stock vs. modded trucks then it is not mods causing the problem it is a bad designed pump, that is something that needs to be fixed no matter if a truck is stock or modded as it effects all owners the same.



Lift Pump failures are the same, in fact if lift pumps were not a stock problem why would DC be changing them all the time? The lift pump can effect so many things down the chain of the fuel system, now we have the in tank lift pumps, some have blasted them and advised in the pages of TDR magazine to avoid them in retrofits. Why? it is the newest design that is supposed to cure the lift pump problem, has it done that yet? Don't know not enough stats, that is what polls do they give you some idea of what is going on.



I am in amazement of the fear of these polls from certain members.



One last thing, did you vote in the poll listing your stock truck with an injector failure?

Jeez john, Chill out a little. I hope the rant portions were not directed at me, you must have read too much into my post if they were.



My point was meant to be that, just viewing the results page doesn't tell you much. I can see that four have had injector failures but can't determine if they were on stock or modded trucks, nor can I put them with any specific version of the engine. I wasn't trying to impune you for starting a poll, I'm just curious how you will be able to discern useful results?



This issue is really broad. I watched the Isuzumax guys try this too. They ran into the same problem. Other issues include repeated failures, multiple injector failures, type of mods (pressure, timing, duration) as that would seem to make a difference.



I'm all for you collecting data. I responded with a stock, 600/610, injector failure. Should I also be responding for the three other trucks that have had no issues?



I had to stop and think about which "warranty camp" I fall into. Not intending to start that debate back up but, I guess I am one who feels that if you mod it you own it. That comes from being on the receiving end of dubious claims by former customers. Different industry, different circumstances but that is where I come down, regardless of commonality of failure.



I do not like what I read about DC voiding warranties though. I would certainly agree that they should be PROVING the mod did the damage. I really do not care for the notion that the consumer must take on the burden of fighting it. You should be innocent until proven guilty.

 

[JHardwick]

Please keep in mind that the polls only allow up to 10 choices, so I did not include trucks with no failures, we are interested in the failures not the ones that have not failed.

Your missing a very important piece of the puzzle here. Should have included "no failures" instead of vp-44 failures.

 

[JRG]

My point was meant to be that, just viewing the results page doesn't tell you much. I can see that four have had injector failures but can't determine if they were on stock or modded trucks, nor can I put them with any specific version of the engine. I wasn't trying to impune you for starting a poll, I'm just curious how you will be able to discern useful results?

If you answered all the choices that pertain, that would give some useful data as to how many moded vs non-moded failures there were, wouldn't it? I don't know maybe not.



JRG

 

[Luken]

Your missing a very important piece of the puzzle here. Should have included "no failures" instead of vp-44 failures.

Yep... But it's obvious he could care less about all of us that have had nothing wrong with our trucks... He wouldn't have anything to b!tch about then. I just wish he would answer what EXACTLY he is trying to get out of all this?? Is it fire power for a lawsuit. One day you want to know if there is any lawsuits against DC, You question if the Cummins is so mighty after all... All the polls... ...



EVERY SINGLE DAY it's the same thing just in a different context.



If I was DC is would void your warranty with the hopes that you go away and get a ferd...

 

[JRG]

Your missing a very important piece of the puzzle here. Should have included "no failures" instead of vp-44 failures.

A member could select STOCK + 555 + no other selections and one could see that there is "no failures". Pick a member and you can see what/if that member has had issues. How to put it into %s I'm not sure, guess it would be a data entry job .



JRG

 

[JRG]

I just looked at the results again. Here is the problem, we have 22 voters but only 9 stock and 8 moded. Everyone MUST choose ALL that apply. The percents are there and work if and only if they add up to 100%.



JRG

 

[Luken]

I voted. My vp-44 sure has been acting up on me lately...

 

[Parks]

70,000 miles no problems. And modded.

I don't think people fear these polls but are puzzled by them. It seems to me that you have some kind of personal vendetta with DC and you are using the TDR as your sounding board. I could be wrong but ?????????

As long as you want to keep it in your own thread and not in anyone else's that's cool.

 

[rbattelle]

I don't think people fear these polls but are puzzled by them.

Parks is a smart man.



-Ryan

 

[JPereira]

If you answered all the choices that pertain, that would give some useful data as to how many moded vs non-moded failures there were, wouldn't it? I don't know maybe not.



JRG

I don't think that will give you a valid answer as there may be four times that amount out in use of Modded trucks that have not had any issues. Would need to have a poll.



1-Stock no problem

2-Stock with failures

3-modified no problems

4-modified with failures



Then you would need to think about how many vehicles are out there modified that are not answering to begin with in fear of voiding their warranty?

 

[Luken]

I don't think that will give you a valid answer as there may be four times that amount out in use of Modded trucks that have not had any issues. Would need to have a poll.



1-Stock no problem

2-Stock with failures

3-modified no problems

4-modified with failures



Then you would need to think about how many vehicles are out there modified that are not answering to begin with in fear of voiding their warranty?

Exactly, I think John will be surpised at the number of trucks that are modified that have no problems.