Poor Engineering 2004 Dodge Oil Pressure

[Boonieman]

I am a believer in mechanical gauges too, but when I apply logic to it I'm not sure why. I had an 84 Ford Ranger with mechanical gauges. I know I look at gauges occasionally, but not continuosly. Anyhow, I was cruising down the interstate and unknow to me had sprung a leak on the rear main seal and it eventually pumped out all the oil. I heard the engine start sounding funny and glanced at the gauges and had zero oil pressure. I stopped immediately, but not before wiping the camshaft bearings. I like knowing what the oil pressure is, but to prevent severe engine damage I believe an oil level sensor, not pressure, makes more sense. Even with a mechanical guage, you can be really low on oil with the oil pump cavitating, and still show decent oil pressure. By the time you notice low pressure, the potential for engine damage has already occured. That's why I don't sweat the virtual oil pressure gauge all the much. Just my opinion though.

 

[fj40dave]

I have 10,300 miles on the motor... . with the price of diesel at $2. 65 here - not a lot of miles going on the motor these day's :-(



I ran the oil pressure line to the gauge in the dash pod..... protected/sleeved through the firewall and anywhere there is potential for chaffing.

 

[rbattelle]

I like knowing what the oil pressure is, but to prevent severe engine damage I believe an oil level sensor, not pressure, makes more sense.

I have thought about this, but couldn't come up with a way of mounting the sender so that it would read anything useful and not constantly give false emergencies.



-Ryan

 

[Boonieman]

rbattelle,



My brother had a Chevy Vega that I helped him work on one time because it wouldn't start. After working on it for hours, I finally figured out that it had a low oil level interlock on it that wouldn't allow the engine to start. Added oil, started right up. It didn't actually tell what the oil level was, only if it was low. I wouldn't want an interlock shutting the engine down at a bad time, but I'm surprised manufacturers don't have at least an alarm go off. I agree if installed improperly it would probably lead to false alarms, which would make it useless.

 

[Matt400]

I'm surprised manufacturers don't have at least an alarm go off.

I know most dont want to hear this but Ford and GM have been doing it for several years now. Its a low oil level warning lamp.

 

[sag2]

Some of the old K body Chryslers had factory oil level warning in the pan. If I recall, it was a sensor that measured the resistance of the oil across two Terminals. It screwed into the side of the pan.

 

[Matt400]

There is one for the washer tank and you sure wouldn't want to burn that motor out!

 

[Yo Hoot]

Only problem with this whole scenario is even with a perfect guage, without some sort of flashing light or buzzer, the same thing could happen. Who watches their guages all the time and talks on the phone, eats, puts makeup on

 

[rbattelle]

I just remembered my old '94 ranger had an oil level sensor stuck in the side of the pan. It would check level on startup and illuminate a lamp if the level was 1 quart low. But it only worked on startup, not during normal running.



-Ryan

 

[GWoody]

Only problem with this whole scenario is even with a perfect guage, without some sort of flashing light or buzzer, the same thing could happen. Who watches their guages all the time and talks on the phone, eats, puts makeup on

"PUTS MAKEUP ON", What other hobbies do you have besides trucks Yo Hoot???????? :-laf :-laf :-laf :-laf

 

[klenger]

It seems that one built in oil level indicator that our truck has is that if you lost enough oil to loose oil pressure, there should be a mess under the truck. This assumes that you didn't have the oil changed, and then drive for 600 miles (a full tank of fuel) without stopping. In any case, I agree, the design is poor.

 

[rashwor]

I know most dont want to hear this but Ford and GM have been doing it for several years now. Its a low oil level warning lamp.

John Deere also does this on their agriculture tractors FWIW. Never needed it though.



Our 6400 has engine oil level and pressure, along with hydraulic oil level and pressure warning lights.

 

[AGrubbs]

Hoses..

After reading all this stuff about oil problems I am going to be installing an oil pressure gauge as soon as it warms up a little bit here.



One thing I don't like is the thought of a hose running over my hot engine and into the cab. I think it would be a much better and safer thing to use an electrical sensor and readout.



A quick search of my book marks come up with. .



E-gauges



Now to check to see that it will fit in the overhead gauge pod. .



For those of you that have to have :--) "Something different" :--) , heres a really cool

heads up display, kind of like in the fighter Jets!

Heads UP!

 

[Murphy67]

Well its not just a dodge problem. electro mechanical gauging will not be as accurate as the ol' mechanical gauging. If you are really wanting protection a system that monitors, warns, and perhaps does a shutdown sequence for predetermined conditions would be the way to go.



I recall many years ago, like 30, we had a 426 hemi running an irrigation system. The engine gauges were Murphy gages. They were analog with adjustable metal limits within the glass. When the metal needle hit the limit and it grounded the ignition. A quick search on the internet got me this hit. After 30 years their gauge lineup has gone high end, but it does the same thing.



http://www.fwmurphy.co.uk/products/index.htm

 

[rbattelle]

Isspro makes temperature, pressure, and flow switches that will sound an audible alarm and automatically shutdown the engine after 30 seconds.



But by the time you've got 0 oil pressure, the damage is probably already done.



-Ryan

 

[Rbirdy]

I did install an electro mechanical gauge on my truck, along with a pyrometer. I will check out your website on murphy gauges to upgrade to something better. I have autometer gauges. The sending unit is mounted on top the filter.



I went back to the dealership last weekend with the bill I payed to get my engine rebuilt ($5,186. 00). This is the dealer that bought out the other one. I told them the story of what happened and they agreed to pay the whole bill, including the car rental, additional $629. 00. This dealer did not have to cover this but agreed it was the garages fault for the filter failure. This was a stock Chrysler filter that was used also. They said they are going after Chrysler also. The name of this dealership is Gandrud Chevrolet and they bought The House of Ryan Dodge Dealership across the street from them and will rename the business. This is in Green Bay Wi. on the east side.



The shop that rebuilt my engine is Advanced Diesel Systems Inc. in Montague Mi. . The damage to the engine was on #6 cylinder only. It took out the piston, connecting rod, scored #6 cylinder, and damaged the crank on #6 journal. The crank could have been buffed, it wasen't blue / burnt but we decided to turn the whole crank . 010" to be safe. The block was bored on #6 only and sleeved to bring it back to stock bore. The owner of Advanced Diesel (Terry Nelson) worked on a Saturday and all day Sunday to get me back on the road. He finished the job at 12:30 AM monday morning. If any of you guys need any diesel work done, call him. He works on all diesels, including all the heavy equipment, and is a workaholic. He also gaurantees his work and is meticulous. Looking at my engine that was completely out of the truck you could not tel it was ever rebuilt. His business number is 231-893-3306.



I found that the dealership makes all the difference. By the way, I bought my previous truck (2001 Duramax) from the current dealer.

 

[JHardwick]

an oil level sensor in the pan would prevent meltdown in the event of a catstrophic oil volume loss ... ... ...



a mechanical pressure gauge can be used as a reference for bearing or pump wear ... .....

 

[klenger]

Rbirdy: Great ending to an otherwise very sad story. Sorry you had to go through all this, but thrilled it turned out so well. Did the dealer feel that the oil pressure sensor was defective, or bad design?

 

[midlife crisis]

I'm not so sure a level sensor would always help you either. I have seen oil pump pickups break & fall off, clog with debris, (sludge or sabatoge) and a level indicator would have been little value.

Off hand I dont know the lube circuitry of the Cummins, but on the engines I do work on, a pressure sender in the piston cooling circuit is added. The low limit triggers a fuel derate, as well as an audible. Testing shows if a pressure problem does take place , this scenario is your best bet at having a chance.

I can only guess as to why DC cannot have accurate gauges. Perhaps they think the masses will believe 70-90 psi is a bad thing, and want us to see what they think we want to see. I dunno.

Data going out over the CAN is typically very accurate, quick, updates in milliseconds, and upgradeable. It would be interesting to know the Protocol of this system, get a non-DC gauge with the same Protocol, and tap into the Serial Data line to see if we get an accurate reading. Finding out if the piston cooling circuit has a port would be useful.

RBirdy- glad to hear someone stood up. DC, like every mfg has something called Goodwill. Your case is a prime example (If I have all the facts right) of where they should excersise it. You did nothing wrong, yet were stuck with a hefty bill for premature engine failure. Good Luck-

 

[Matt400]

I can only guess as to why DC cannot have accurate gauges.

Pretty simple. . cost. You see that same dash plate works on all the Rams with all the engines.

Data going out over the CAN is typically very accurate, quick, updates in milliseconds, and upgradeable. It would be interesting to know the Protocol of this system, get a non-DC gauge with the same Protocol, and tap into the Serial Data line to see if we get an accurate reading.

The ECM does not know what pressure the engine has because there is no data for it. The pressure switch closes at 6 psi and then the ECM says- were good to go for needle placement, in which case it looks at coolant temp and RPM to place the needle where the majority of folks think it should be.