Poor Engineering 2004 Dodge Oil Pressure

[Matt400]

I told them the story of what happened and they agreed to pay the whole bill, including the car rental

Way to step up to the plate! Sounds like a dealer that wants not only your business but also your friends business. Do them a big favor now and recommend them to others.

 

[rbattelle]

I'm not so sure a level sensor would always help you either. I have seen oil pump pickups break & fall off, clog with debris, (sludge or sabatoge) and a level indicator would have been little value.

Off hand I dont know the lube circuitry of the Cummins, but on the engines I do work on, a pressure sender in the piston cooling circuit is added.

I think both a level and a pressure sensor would be optimal. The stock sending "switch" is located along the main oil rifle, which is about as close to the piston cooling circuit as you can get on these engines. Eventually I'd like to move my gauge sending unit over to the port where the factory switch is, but having absolutely no idea what the thread size is on that fitting has thus far prevented me from taking the time to do it.



I considered the possibility of welding a level sensor to the stock oil drain plug in order to feed an oil level gauge. There are 2 problems. First, you'd have to be very careful to keep the probe away from the crankshaft. Second, what's the level of the oil in the pan when the engine is running? I think it would be important to know. I assume the reason the Ford trucks with level sensors only work on startup is because during normal running there's not enough oil in the pan to get any meaningful reading. I don't know.



RBirdy, I couldn't be happier for you the way things worked out. It's very refreshing to hear about a dealer with that level of customer service. You should picket out in front of their dealership with signs that encourage people to do business there!



-Ryan

 

[klenger]

An oil level sensor would also have to deal with the truck not being level, either at startup or in operation.

 

[midlife crisis]

Pretty simple. . cost. You see that same dash plate works on all the Rams with all the engines.





The ECM does not know what pressure the engine has because there is no data for it. The pressure switch closes at 6 psi and then the ECM says- were good to go for needle placement, in which case it looks at coolant temp and RPM to place the needle where the majority of folks think it should be.

I kinda saw the cost thing coming



I am not doubting you. . does a scan tool confirm this? Having to install a mechanical gauge defeats the whole purpose of the current system. Its a little frightning Cummins allows this to happen, an engine monitoring system that doesnt read correctly.



My final thoughts are -between this thread, the "Frame" thread, all the "DW" threads, the "Customer Satisfaction" thread (s), I am left wondering about my decision. All Toyota has to do is take a page out of DC's handbook on how not to build a . 75T Diesel P/U and the Benz boys are going to be in deep Sour Kraut. ( pun intended). I converted once- second time will be even easier.

 

[Matt400]

I am not doubting you. . does a scan tool confirm this?

No, what confirms it is the factory wire diagram.

 

[Rbirdy]

Klenger: the dealer did not know the oil pressure gauge does not indicate oil pressure. When I had my truck towed in to a dealership in West Mi. they did not know either. There are a lot of Diesel Cummins in that area. When they found out from Advanced Diesel Systems Inc. about the gauge design, everyone is bringing they're trucks in for gauge installations. There are several trucks converted since this happened to mine.

 

[Rbirdy]

Ryan: I am trying to tell everyone about the new dealership and they're exceptional service. I convinced a friend of mine to buy a new diesel truck from them last weekend. I also traded mine in this last weekend for a 2005 with the 6 speed, love the power. I have another friend coming from West Michigan to buy a truck from them. Customer service was always very Oo. important to me. This dealer proved they have excellent customer service when I bought my Duramax diesel from them, I had problems but they took care of me. I would reccomend anyone to buy a vehicle from them. Again the name of the dealership is Gandrud Dodge, they also own Gandrud Chevrolet across the street. They're located in Green Bay Wisconsin on the east side, 2300 Auto Plaza Way, 54302, 920-468-1212. They have 1 price as stated on the windshield and they're selling 2005 Dodge Cummins trucks for $33,000 - $34,000 depending on options. I certainly found out there is a big difference in dealers and would pay a little more to get good service. Oo.

 

[flattracker]

Glad to hear you got your problems covered under warranty but sounds like a case of poor diagnoses in the first place. Anyone who has serviced many of these engines knows that oil filters don't suddenly come loose after 10,000 miles of service, if they are even hand tight it is going to take a filter wrench to get them back off. Secondly you would have had to loose at least 7 quarts of oil out of this engine before you would of lost oil pressure 7 quarts of oil spewed on a hot turbo and exhaust would fill the cab with a stench that no one could ignore and a fog of blue smoke that could plainly be seen in the mirror. Thirdly engines run without oil pressure don't damage one piston and rod and leave the others unharmed. Most likely scenario is number 6 was damaged either thru excessive egt's , plugged cooling noozle, or overheating and the debris completly plugged the filter and blew the seal but this was post engine damage not the cause of it.

 

[Cummins Thunder]

What if you used one of those oil temp sensors that attach to the dip-stick??

When the oil falls below the end of the stick it will show a very low temp or maybe no temp???



Just thinking out loud.....

 

[flattracker]

All this talk of mechanical pressure gauges and lines there will be more engines lost to line leaks than were ever lost to defective electric gauges. Did anyone open the filter and check for debris? If the filter has aluminum debris from the scored piston it is proof positive the damage occured before you lost pressure if it ocurred because you lost your oil there would be no debris in the filter because of no oil circulation to deposit it there. The reason your gauge didn't go to zero till after you stopped is most likely because thats when you ran out of oil. If you don't believe these gauges work isolate it with two valves and a T start your engine when the oil pressure comes up close the valve between the gauge and the engine and open the second valve on the T to bleed off the pressure I assure you the pressure will go to zero.

 

[flattracker]

On the subject of the factory gauge inaccuracy, it isn't. There is a reason cummins and dodge doesn't take oil pressure readings off the top of the filter base, it is too close to the oil pump. These engines have gerotor style oil pumps that have tremendous pressure spikes on every revolution if you install a good industrial pressure gauge without dampning in that port and start your engine the needle will swing up and down so violently that if left for very long will destroy the gauge. This is also the reason for the limited list of acceptable filters these same fluctuations are what destroys the media in lesser quality filters. The reason you don't see these spikes in aftermarket gauges is because they have a tiny orifice in the end of them to prevent these from destroying them and it is also is why you are getting inaccurate readings one of these engines at operating temprature will not have 75 lbs of oil pressure unless something is wrong. If you hook a high quality industrial gauge into the main oil gallery where dodge and cummins takes their oil pressure you will get readings within 5 lbs of what your dash is showing. Sorry to be so long winded but there has been a lot of inaccurate information given out in this thread just trying to clear some of it up. If you still want a mechanical gauge buy a glycerin filled one and plum it in to the main oil gallery and you will get much more accurate readings.

 

[rbattelle]

What if you used one of those oil temp sensors that attach to the dip-stick??

Now that's an interesting idea.



-Ryan

 

[viper700]

I read all 71 responses to the original problem. Why can't you just put an old fashioned 7 psi pressure switch sending unit in the port on the oil filter with a big red light on the dash in easy view that would catch the drivers eye immediately. About 20 plus years ago I had an airboat here in Alaska with a real nice 327 chev that I had high performanced a bit and had a belt drive. Coming down the river one day the oil pump spun the ears off the oil pump shaft. I don't know how long I ran with 0 oil pressure but I was not in a situation to check guages at that point. After that I placed a wingtip light from an F4 fighter with a 12v bulb in my forward view under the front deck. The only reason I believe that my engine did not crash was that I was using an oil from ARCO that was graphite impregnated. The oil went off the market many years ago,Why I don't know.

 

[rbattelle]

Why can't you just put an old fashioned 7 psi pressure switch sending unit in the port on the oil filter with a big red light on the dash in easy view that would catch the drivers eye immediately.

The theory is that by the time you lose enough oil volume to drop the pressure down to 7 psi you've already damaged the engine.



-Ryan

 

[insanediego2500]

question, My oil gauge reads 45 pounds when traveling down the road. Whe stopped at a light or just idling it drops down just above the red area on the gauge. My dads 2001 stays the same pressure all the time. I have 25000 miles on this truck and this concerns me some. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you

 

[ECappleman]

question, My oil gauge reads 45 pounds when traveling down the road. Whe stopped at a light or just idling it drops down just above the red area on the gauge. My dads 2001 stays the same pressure all the time. I have 25000 miles on this truck and this concerns me some. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you

Mine does the same thing.

At idle it is just inside the saftey zone and mid to upper when traveling.



I thought it was normal?

 

[rbattelle]

I wouldn't worry about it. The common consensus around here is that the factory sending unit is a switch only (one of these days I'm going to test it), and the gauge action is purely simulation. The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) will set the instrument cluster oil gauge to peg on "0" if pressure falls below 6 psi.



-Ryan

 

[insanediego2500]

Thanks for the info.

 

[Matt400]

Why can't you just put an old fashioned 7 psi pressure switch sending unit in the port on the oil filter with a big red light on the dash

Thats a great idea and I know I have seen one listed somewhere already just for this, can't remember the company.

If you did one on your own you would need a higher pressure switch IMO.

Just yesterday I was checking pressure on a 24V and it was 40 psi at idle and the engine was warmed up.



For my own use I am going with a SPA gauge that will give me a user selectable warning led. That way I can tailer the warning to just under the pressure it will have in the heat of the summer at idle.

oil from ARCO that was graphite impregnated. The oil went off the market many years ago,Why I don't know.

I would say EPA did that.

 

[Hohn]

The Chrysler garage where I had my oil changed last refused to cover the damages. They have since sold the dealership. Chrysler corporate could not do anything about it.

While the sending units on these trucks are known to be lemons, and a mechanical pressure gauge is a good idea, it has NOTHING to do with what happened to you!



The oil filter was loose because of the place that did the oil change. THEY are at fault. If they had done the job properly, that crappy DC engineering never would have been a problem.



I can't see how this incident is DC's fault when you abandon the idea that having accurate OP readings would somehow have allowed you to shut down the engine in time to save it.



This is like pouring sand down the intake, then blaming the engine's quietness for keeping you from hearing the grinding of the sand in the engine.



The OP sender is crappy. But the blame in this lies squarely with the garage that CAUSED the loss of oil pressure, not the gauge that didn't tell you about it quickly.



jlh