2nd Gen Non-Engine/Transmission Porterfield Brake Pads

[Hohn]

In the quest to find a better way to stop our big trucks, I have been looking for a better brake pad.



To me, that means carbon-Kevlar (like the EGR pads). Since I have a 2002 with 4w discs, there as already some decent braking potential there.



The EGR setup is nice, but too spendy for me. The Performance Friction pads that many people use scared me with rumors of cheap quality.



Enter the Porterfield Racing Brake Pads company. I put a set of these on my Maxima after another maxima owner STRONGLY recommended them to me. He was dead on. I wish I could describe the INSANE braking power these pads have-- they made a HUGE difference with NO OTHER changes. So, now I am sold on these pads. BANG!-- Idea rams its way into my thick skull-- why not get these awesome pads for the CTD?



Unfortunately, they don't make a pad for the Dodge Ram. I would have given up there, but I decided to call them instead, and beg them to make them.



They told me that they could make them, no problem, if I sent them a drawing of what I needed or (better yet) an actual pad.



Bottom line: we can get the best brake pads in the world now for our trucks. We just have to "help" the manufacturer.



As soon as I can get some 2001. 5 or later 2nd gen brake pads, I will get them made and then report on how they work.







HOHN

 

[Hohn]

****UPDATE****

GREAT NEWS!!



After much cajoling by me last fall, Porterfield took it upon themselves to start making pads for the Ram 2500/3500!



I didn't know this, though, because I didn't follow up until today!!



I also took the liberty of arranging a GROUP PURCHASE of the Porterfield pads. If we can assemble $1500 worth of orders, we get a discount of almost 20%! Once we have the initial $1500 worth, then the discount is a standing offer that ANY TDR member can get just by asking for the TDR discount.



Normally, the pads are $99 for front, and $99 for rear. With discount, they are $79 a pair. Spendy? Yes, for brake pads. But consider this:

1) they are WAAY cheaper than other ways of improving braking performance-- they no doubt will offer the biggest "bang" for the braking "buck".

2) Unlike other brakes that tend to fade badly, the Porterfields GRIP HARDER AS THEY GET HOTTER. This goes on until you have overheat in the fluid.

3) They cost a lot less then an exhaust brake, and might be all you need if you don't tow real heavy

4) Finally, if a quality brake pad is the difference between you avoiding an accident or not, then it is a CHEAP investment.



If we can't get together the 8 or 9 people to do a front/rear install, then we will have to go full price until we get to the magic $1500 point.



They have Front pads for all second-gen trucks, and Rears as well for the 2001. 5 and later trucks.



Check them out yourself HERE



** I am sadly not affiliated with Porterfield. I will however, plug products as good as theirs are**



HOHN

 

[mberry]

I didn't see the pads listed for our trucks. I would be interested in doing the rears on mine. Almost anything has got to be better than OEM.

 

[Hohn]

obsolete listing

I didn't see it either. That's why I called them. Turns out they DO have them, their web site isn't updated to reflect that.



The sales rep made it very clear to me that they had them. Dodge Ram? Yes. 2500? Yes. Front and rear? yes. 2002? yes, as well 94 and later. Or so they say.



I would be ticked if that rep was full of it and truly ignorant, but I don't think that's the case.



Unfortunately, lots of companies (esp smaller ones) don't keep their websites super-current. .



jlh

 

[vc]

Are the front pads the same for all our 2nd gen trucks - ie are my '97 front pads same as your 2002?

vc

 

[vc]

never mind - you answered my question just before I posted.

vc

 

[kaptn]

Hey thanks for the info. I checked their website and I think this is what I am looking for. I am more into longevity than braking power. Will these last longer?

 

[Hohn]

I can't really say..

I don't know for sure how long these pads will last. I figure they are like tires-- it all depends on how hard you drive and such. I would expect reasonable life to be 40K miles or so. The only measure I have of how worn they are is how much dusting they have done. They dust about the same as any other pad I have used, but it seems to be a little more noticeable because of the material these pads are made of.



When you first open the box and see them, they look as if they are made of charcoal- that's how black they are. When you handle them, you will get our hands VERY dirty. When i put them on my Maxima, it was the first disc brake pad job i had done, and i didn't know to clean everything with brake cleaner. Amazingly enough, they still don't squeal.



All this in my book is a very small price to pay for the tremendous increase in braking performance. Perhaps the biggest change I noticed was the drastic reduction in pedal effort.



I am ordering mine in a few weeks, once Operation Recover-from-Christmas is over



HOHN

 

[illflem]

I'd like to hear how they do for a few folks first. Generally softer pads wear out fast and make more dust while the dustless harder pads squeak and wear out your rotors. Carbomets are the best match I've found so far.

 

[Big White Beast]

These are Carbon/Kevlar pads.....

I tried a set on my truck (Disc/Drum) and wasn't impressed. Not this companies but the same material. With the weight I carry (11K lbs daily) they just didn't help that much. That and they went metal to metal in under 10K miles.



With a lighter truck they may help more without creating the great amounts of heat mine did.



Garrett

 

[Hohn]

Good point

AFAIK, these ARE carbon Kevlar pads. I am going to try them soon on my truck. There are MANY different formulations of material, though, that are all considered carbon/kevlar.



I had a good experience with them on my car, but I agree that's entirely possible that the weight of a truck makes it a whole different animal.



Porterfield is highly regarded in the racing world, and I am not aware of any quality control issues they have had. Not to say there aren't any, just that I haven't heard them. I would expect them to wear a little faster than a non-performance pad. It's like tires-- you can have traction or durability-- which is more important to you? I would rather have a really sticky pad and replace it every 20-30K miles than have one that lasted forever but wouldn't stop me in time to avoid a problem.



These pads aren't for everyone, I should say. They are for someone who wants better braking, better heat management, etc. . and is willing to prioritize that over other things like max durability and dusting. Yes, they dust, and yes, they probably don't last as long as another pad MIGHT last. But all brakes dust, and all will eventually wear out. NONE has the stopping power these pads have. If there was- I would use it. I am a big proponent of sticky brakes and tires.



HOHN



BTW-- as much as I like these pads, I don't want someone to feel pressured to buy them. I just want this to be available to those who feel like me, that our trucks need stronger braking. My feelings aren't hurt in the least of you don't want them or aren't yet ready to try them.

 

[willyslover]

Hohn. . put my name on the list of preping for a "group" buy at the discounted deal. . a set for me [front and rears] . . 2001. 5 3500 4x4

 

[ewcmr2]

Some thoughts on brakes...



Changing pads will not shorten braking distance, (unless vehicle has F/R bias problems) once tires are at impending lockup the pads are doing all they can do.

Different pads can't increase the rotors/calipers ability to dissipate heat. Bigger brakes can dissipate more heat, exhaust brakes can lessen dependency on service brakes.

A pad that works at 1600* probably doesn't at ambient temps, a pad that works at ambient temps probably goes away by 1200*

Good info can be found at carbotecheng.com



Eric

 

[sam peterson]

Racing applications are a whole lot different than real world driving needs. Unless there is a lot of ginne pigs out there---proven carbo mets can't be beat.

 

[Hohn]

you are assuming....

Originally posted by ewcmr2

Some thoughts on brakes...



Changing pads will not shorten braking distance, (unless vehicle has F/R bias problems) once tires are at impending lockup the pads are doing all they can do.

Different pads can't increase the rotors/calipers ability to dissipate heat. Bigger brakes can dissipate more heat, exhaust brakes can lessen dependency on service brakes.

A pad that works at 1600* probably doesn't at ambient temps, a pad that works at ambient temps probably goes away by 1200*

Good info can be found at carbotecheng.com



Eric

Eric, what you are saying would be true IF the following assumptions were always valid:

1) both brake pads tested are linear in their ability to apply braking force, i. e. they are 100% the instant you step on it, and maintain 100% the whole way through until you stop.

2) The brakes generate the same amount of heat at the same rate.

3) The brakes respond the same way to the heat generated.

4) The brakes have a higher coefficient of friction that the tires do with the road. This is often untrue with performance tires on dry pavement, making the brakes, not the tires, the weaker link.



There are others, but you get the idea. Also, consider the following scenarios:

1) Given, a vehicle is NOT equipped with ABS. Many vehicles are equipped with such weak brakes that they cannot generate enough braking force to instantly lock all four wheels up. If your vehicle is like this (Ford Taurus comes to mind), then it is lacking braking power, since max braking occurs JUST before wheel lockup. Also, consider that wright transfer to the front GREATLY increases the traction of the front tires, allowing for a friction level that approaches (or exceeds) the friction of the brake pads on the rotors.

2) Now, what about a vehicle WITH ABS brakes? First, ABS works by pulsing the brakes rapidly, much more than you could manually. This means that they apply pressure, then release it at a given rate. This MAX pressure point is nowhere near the ragged edge of max traction (margin of safety), thus, a brake pad with a higher coefficient of friction generates more braking power during that instant of brake pressure application. This is exacerbated by the sluggishness of the system's brake pressure rise and fall. REMEMBER: THE PURPOSE OF ABS IS NOT TO STOP FASTER, BUT TO STOP UNDER CONTROL IN A PANIC. FWIW, a skilled driver with no ABS, can outbrake any driver in an ABS-equipped car every time.



In the end, because they respond faster to braking inputs, manage heat better, and can apply max braking pressure more quickly, a high performance brake pad CAN make a difference it stopping distance, whether the car is equipped with ABS or not.



Doubt me? Read some of the Hot Rod and Car Craft articles documenting this exact phenomenon of brake pads alone increasing braking performance. Wilwood has done tests as well, that show that pads make a big difference, even when the calipers and rotors are exactly the same. I think Motor Trend also did an article on brake pads and showed this to be true.



The bottom line is that you are correct, in theory, and your logic is sound. It just doesn't play out that way in reality because there are so many variables.



HOHN

 

[banshee]

Hohn,



I need a set of front pads for my truck, so put me in for an order. Just to make sure, it's $79 x 2, right? ($79 for each wheel).



BTW, this:

FWIW, a skilled driver with no ABS, can outbrake any driver in an ABS-equipped car every time.

is a VERY true statement. IMO the ABS in our trucks suck as well.



John

 

[nhincher]

Re: you are assuming....

Originally posted by Hohn

Eric, what you are saying would be true IF the following assumptions were always valid:



4) The brakes have a higher coefficient of friction that the tires do with the road. This is often untrue with performance tires on dry pavement, making the brakes, not the tires, the weaker link.



There are others, but you get the idea. Also, consider the following scenarios:



2) Now, what about a vehicle WITH ABS brakes? First, ABS works by pulsing the brakes rapidly, much more than you could manually. This means that they apply pressure, then release it at a given rate. This MAX pressure point is nowhere near the ragged edge of max traction (margin of safety), thus, a brake pad with a higher coefficient of friction generates more braking power during that instant of brake pressure application. This is exacerbated by the sluggishness of the system's brake pressure rise and fall. REMEMBER: THE PURPOSE OF ABS IS NOT TO STOP FASTER, BUT TO STOP UNDER CONTROL IN A PANIC. FWIW, a skilled driver with no ABS, can outbrake any driver in an ABS-equipped car every time.



HOHN

a couple of comments,



number 4, right on the money, coefficient of friction of pads to rotors is rarely higher than 0. 5 (european friction materials, US market is usually . 35-. 4ish). Tire Road friction is around 0. 9 (dry pavement), water/snow/ice can drop this to . 1-. 2 brakes are able to lock up a wheel because they can generate a TON more torque on the wheel than the road can (lotsa hydraulic pressure).



A vehicle equiped with ABS WILL stop shorter than any "skilled driver" on the face of the planet, ABS cycles at about 90% wheel slip, no driver in the world would be able to constantly adjust for this during a high decel stop.



while not as glamorous as a sports car, pickups are the HARDEST vehicles to design brake systems for, due to the extreme differences in LLVW vs. GVW. Rear lockup becomes a major concern. ABS will let you run at higher rear pressures = shorter stopping distances without the fear of premature rear lockup (spinout time... )



ABS, DRP, and wheel lockup aside, a higher coefficient of friction lining will stop a vehicle in a shorter distance, you can't argue the physics on this one, the available pressure from the master cylinder is all there is, by uping the Mu level the brake output goes up for any given apply pressure.



on the pads, there is a reason OEM stuff isn't 0. 6 -. 75 mu, it's mostly due to NVH, lining and rotor life etc. I would suspect with the older caliper design on our Rams that a high Mu lining will give you some major headaches in the roughness department for those that do a lot of highway driving. Also count on changing your rotors with you pads. good chance they'll make some noise too.



just some thoughts, it's getting kinda long so I'll end 'er now.

 

[ewcmr2]

For everyone argueing that "better"pads (not including useing different pads to effect front/rear bias) will shorted stopping distances... go read your current TDR!



Eric