Post/Pre-Lubers

[sparks57]

While I was looking back in the archives, I saw a little bit of discussion about Pre-Lubers. It sounds like a really good concept.



Is anyone here running one? How much do they cost? Are they difficult to set up?



What is your guys' opinion on these things?

 

[y-knot]

I ran the "prelubber" for awhile, I like you thought it was, by concept a good ideal. The thought of pre-lubbing my engine and post-lubbing the turbocharger seemed to be logical. The problem is in the bad design of the oil pump/motor. The motor/pump develops leaks fairly quickly. The biggest draw back I found thou, was the motor isn't sealed from the pump, which allows contamination to the oil to happen. Metal fragments, carbon grit, ect is allowed to mix with the engie oil, which is then pumped into the block. This negates any benifits gained through the pre-post lubrication. The pump itself was easy to install, and the included electronics worked fine. Just quality control issuse and a bad pump design. I think the unit sold for around 500 dollars, and for awhile the company was in and out of business. Several years back, I believe quiet a few people lost there money. I still have my old unit, it is setting on a shelf in the garage.

 

[daveshoe]

Same here . Did not last and leaked. You can make your own security switch that will crank the motor , then wait until pressure comes up to start it. side benefit-truck istheft resistant. A member wrote to cummins about a truck that sat long periods and they recommended doing this. {TDR magazine article] Post shutdown ,just wait 2 minutes.

 

[Doubleclutch]

"Metal fragments, carbon grit, ect is allowed to mix with the engie oil, which is then pumped into the block. This negates any benifits gained through the pre-post lubrication. " Except the dischargre of the pump is into the inlet of the oil filter. Convienent way to fill the filter without spilling during oil changes.

Greg

 

[sparks57]

That is really too bad. It is an awesome concept... . has anyone came up with a reliable product? I found a good link on dodgeram.org site with good info, and instructions for building your own pre-luber.



Here is the link if you are interested:

http://dodgeram.org/ki4cy/preluber/Preluber.htm#sources



I am really interested in this concept... I may just have to fabricate my own if I can't find a reliable manufacturer.

 

[MikeO]

Got just what you are looking for!

Accusump



These things have been around in racing for a long time. Filtered engine oil pressurized by the running engine's oil pump pushes the oil into the accumulator and either a manual or electric vavle closes so the oil is held in the accusump under pressure indefinetely.



If you experience a loss of oil pressure while running, you can simply open the valve (or it will open automitically in the electric model) and bam... . you just saved your engine during shut down. The few extra seconds makes a difference.



The other way it is used is as a pre-luber. Open the valve and voila, you pre-oil the engine.



I can't tell you how many guys I see running these in race cars. It is the cheapest insurance policy.



Mike O.

 

[MikeO]

Got just what you are looking for!

Accusump



These things have been around in racing for a long time. Filtered engine oil pressurized by the running engine's oil pump pushes the oil into the accumulator and either a manual or electric vavle closes so the oil is held in the accusump under pressure indefinetely.



If you experience a loss of oil pressure while running, you can simply open the valve (or it will open automitically in the electric model) and bam... . you just saved your engine during shut down. The few extra seconds makes a difference.



The other way it is used is as a pre-luber. Open the valve and voila, you pre-oil the engine.



I can't tell you how many guys I see running these in race cars. It is the cheapest insurance policy.



Mike O.

 

[sparks57]

Great, thanks. Does anyone else have any comments on either the Accusump or other products?

 

[R.E. Miller]

Go to Eastwood......

Eastwood has their own version of the Accusump, and I was just looking at buying it.

Russell

 

[sparks57]

Anyone out there built there own? I am thinking that maybe I should build my own. It would be cheaper, and possibly more reliable if I design it well.

 

[sparks57]

I have decided that I am going to make my own unit. It's really simple, so it shouldn't be a problem.



First of all. I would mount the pump before the filter. I would then wire it off of a relay from the ignition switch.



Now, what kind of psi and flow rate would I need from the pump?



Second, should the pump be running the whole time? Or only before ignition?



Will this pump create a lot of resistance and cause lower oil pressure in the system? If so, how could I negate that? Do I need to have a bi-pass system?



Can anyone post pictures of there pre-luber system? Or maybe post links to schematics?

 

[MikeO]

I don't think what you are thinking of will work. If you are looking to make an electic system (using some sort of electric pump) and you are looking for a feed in between the engine's pump and the filter you are probably going to be out of luck. I don't think the engine's oil pump is going to let you pull oil through it. You would need to draw oil from the pan and then put it through the filter to do what you are suggesting.



Really, you should look at the Accusump system. That will do everything a pre-oiler is designed to do. It's amazing what one quart of oil pushed into the oiling system will do.



Mike O.

 

[sparks57]

I'm going off of what I read about building a home-made pre-oiler from that link I posted. Unless I am missing something, this is how it was set up.



I could be wrong, and thanks for the reply.

 

[sparks57]

"I used a 12 volt agricultural sprayer pump that takes the oil from the oil pan and pumps it through the oil gallery of my engine it is connected upstream of the factory oil bypass valve and oil filter so there is no need for an external bypass valve with the pump and the oil is filtered before it goes anywhere The pump is hooked up to a toggle switch that I operate manually at the same time that my glow plugs come on ( primitive but effective)"



You could be right... it seems like the system designed here does not pull through the oil pump. I am new to this, so I need to read these things like 10 times before they make sense. I still probably don't fully understand it.

 

[y-knot]

I hear where you are coming from, I am not sure of what abilities you posses, but it is not an easy task to pull off. The pump needs to have a timing circuit that upon switching the key to run, it starts running, and pressurizes the engine, but disengages upon the presents on engine oil pressure. On shut down, there has to be another timing circuit that starts the pump and runs to a set amount of time, 1-5 minutes typically. The whole system has to be sound, and protected from road damage. The lines also need to be high quality, and probably should be of the braided type. I like the accumulator ideal myself, I ran one on my last dragster and it worked just fine. I have been toying with the ideal of doing one on my truck, and I think I will. The beauty of the accumulator is it's simple and automatic. MOROSO has a nice unit, you can get a 3 quart or a 1 1/2 quart model. They make an electric solenoid valve so it would be simple to get working. What is so nice about them, is if for some reason the there is a oil pressure problem, the accumulator will momentarily step in and correct it.

 

[RGT]

The only concern I have with the presure canister type is that while running there is 1 to 3 qts of oil sitting in the can, I suppose you could overfill the engine to begin with..... but the nice thing is it sure is simple

 

[JLEONARD]

I've read a lot about this topic related to the marine application.

Most there agree that while in theory it sounds like a great idea, in reality it really doesn't do much for extended life.

It is rare to see an oil related failure in the marine field , at least a failure that pre-lubing would have prevented.

And this is with engines that sit for sometimes weeks at a time between starts.

What I do at the season (agreeing with Cummins operator's manual) start is disconnect the power cable to the fuel solenoid and turn the engine over a bit until I see pressure register on the gage.

Then I connect the cable and start her up.

I will eventually hook up a "momentary off" switch into the circuit to make that chore easier.

One could do this on the truck and accomplish the same thing I would think.

Just another point of view.

Jay Leonard

 

[MikeO]

Originally posted by RGT

The only concern I have with the presure canister type is that while running there is 1 to 3 qts of oil sitting in the can, I suppose you could overfill the engine to begin with..... but the nice thing is it sure is simple

Not necessary! The 1. 5 or 3 quarts is in the canister when you shut down. That way you can always check the oil level with the dipstick and it will be fine. If you want to purge that 1. 5-3 quarts at oil change, simply open the valve before draining and then overfill by three quarts. Start her up and after oil pressure is up, close the valve. The extra three quarts is in the accumulator.



Hope it helps,

Mike O.