Power Service fuel additive?

[Mike Ellis]

Hmmm. I had the above post formatted nicely in the "reply to topic" screen, then submitted it and it was all run together. Sorry for the mess guys, too many fingers and not enough formatting skill.

 

[Glen Pratt]

I just bought four 16 oz. bottles at Pep Boys. I ran out of Stanadyne. I filled up with fuel last night (45 cetane diesel) and added the whole bottle. 16 oz. treats 50 gallons of fuel. It says on the bottle for extra cleaning use the whole bottle with 25 gallons of fuel. I was suprised when I left the pump. I punched it on a straightaway and I definitely felt an improvement. The truck felt a little quicker. Maybe my imagination. Anyway I just ordered more Stanadyne from Diesel Injection Service. www.dieselpage.com I get the pint bottles because they're easier to deal with and carry in the truck. -Glen

 

[mhenon]

Additives

I think you have to decide what it is you want to do before purchasing and additive. Do you ¨really ¨need to be cleaning the injectors constantly? I don´t think so. Maybe 3 or 4 times a year but not daily. If you need an anti-gel agent for cold weather. . well thats a different story.

I´m only looking to lubricate the pump. PS and the others are a rip-off at $10. 00 a gallon. The two stroke oil is a much better deal.

If you look at the spec´s on the non-synthetic 2 stroke oils. . especially those that say ¨environmental friendly¨ they´re made with mostly rapeseed oil. And at $5. 00 a gallon it a pretty good deal. Actually you can get straight ¨Canola ¨oil at WalMart for less then that... but I´m not getting into that subject.

There is a company out there that sells Synthetic diesel fuel by the 5 gallon can. The spec´s look real good as far as cetane, lubricity, etc. . I thought their price was high but if used as an additive it might be the best deal out there. Forget the company name right now but I´ll do a search and see if I can find them.



Mike

 

[Hohn]

I end up using PS, mostly because it's easy to get.



The additive that I have noticed the MOST difference with is made by Redline Oil, the folks that make the gold-plated, $30 a gallon engine oil, MTL, and such.



Their additives are great, but very hard to find. I ordered some of their additive when i ordered oil, and the additive was great! About 2mpg increase, less smoke, and quieter running.



It's just too darn expensive! (Along the lines of $8 to treat 100 gallons, IIRC)





Justin

 

[Mike Ellis]

I think it would be very interesting if several of us did a modest study of these different additives. It would be easy to do, and cheap, but it would take a few months for all of the info to filter in.



Basically, I propose that a group of us commit to testing the different additives in our trucks. The testing would consist of a series of fill-ups with the different additives, with a tank of plain diesel in between each variant. It is important that the results posted reflect reasonably consistent driving (all unloaded, all towing, etc).



We could post the results to this thread, showing the mpg received for each additive and the plain diesel tanks. Although everybody's mpg would be different, the % change should be consistent if a given additive performs better/worse than the pack. By looking at the %s for several different trucks, we could quickly determine whether the #s are statistically significant enough to justify the expense of an additive.



Anybody interested in doing this? It would be of great interest to all diesel engine enthusiasts...

 

[Hohn]

Mike, I like the idea but I don't think it would work. There are just too many variables to overcome.



-- One tank of plain diesel between treatment probably isn't enough to ensure that the previous additive is all gone

-- it's next to impossible to have two tanks driven the same way, with the same speed, same loading, same wind conditions, same cruise control use, etc etc

-- it's next to impossible to ensure that there is the exact same amount of fuel fill in the tank each time. Depending on the incline of the truck, the pump rate, the air trapped in the tank, etc, it's almost impossible to fill the tank to the exact same quantity each time.



There's more, but that's the basic idea. I think the only quasi-scientific way to test additives would be in a dyno cell where you could get BSFC readings.



Justin

 

[radar doctor]

Question for TDR Members

Ok i have been reading about all these additives. . Here in kansas the stations mix something they call winter Mix??Are they just adding No 1 to No 2 or do they have a concentrate they add?? How about it Bill in Cold Montana, Got any research on this . . I also think that i have noticed the fuel mileage decreasing using the winter mix overstright No2... ... . Cold in Kansas this week.....

 

[Shovelhead]

My case of Stanadyne Performance Formula arrived yesterday from D. I. S. .



I'm going to give it a try and see if it really makes a noticable difference over my Howes/Lucas combo.

 

[pwr2tow]

winter blend or mix is usually just a blend of #1 and #2 diesel. Any additives are usually stated at the pump, it's used as a selling point.



Not every station follows the above guidelines, so it is best to ask the clerk or manager.



Sad to inform you Bill is no longer on the TDR, Seems he took offense to being slammed by some members.



Can not blame Bill, been there many times myself and with only a month left before I have to renew my membership I am contemplateing not renewing.



Ron

 

[Mike Ellis]

Agreed Hohn, the variations in some areas can be extreme but if each driver follows their normal routine we should be able to see if the product makes enough difference to produce a statistically significant result.



Rationale: If you keep track of your mileage under similar conditions, many of the items mentioned will be 2nd order effects, the really critical ones for mpg are similar driving conditions and technique (speed, amount of hotrodding, etc). For instance, air entrapment in the fuel is an evil that is present regardless of additives, yet those who track their fuel usage can observe remarkably consistent results from these very efficient diesel engines - without air entrapment it might be a couple of gallons better, but the foaming action at the various pumps and its impact on mpg must be reasonably consistent or we would see some significant variations in mpg from fillup to fillup.



As far as cleaning the additive out between measurements, we could always do 2 fillups of plain diesel with tank down to a couple of gallons at fillup, although I suspect one fillup is actually "good enough". The dilution is pretty rapid, for instance if you had a 32 gallon tank of diesel with 16 oz Stanadyne, and filled up with only 4 gallons left in the tank, you would have 2 oz of Stanadyne distributed through 32 gallons of diesel fuel. Repeating this on a 2nd clean tank, you would have 1/4 oz Stanadyne in 32 gallons. If Stanadyne effects the readings at such low concentrations in a statistically signficant manner, I will buy a case of it right now because I haven't seen much effect so far at the recommended dosages



One of the interesting things about the Cummins engine is its efficiency and consistency in these trucks. Going back and forth to work and driving around unloaded, my truck will return about 20 mpg day in, day out with a standard deviation of only 0. 8 mpg. I track our other vehicles the same way, my wife's Honda Odyssey has an SD of 5 mpg, the mileage can vary significantly. Our old Suburban and my previous truck had results not much better. The CTD on the other hand, is very consistent. That's why I think we would see if any of these products provide a statistically significant improvement in mpg.



Flatly put, if the products don't provide a statistically significant improvement, they aren't worth buying on the basis of improved power / mpg, only the anti-gel and lubricity properties would be of importance to the average driver. It would be interesting to test those as well. Anybody up for the "jug of diesel in the deep freeze" routine?

 

[JR2]

I have used Power Service, Rotella DFA, Stanadyne, Redline and a couple others I can't remember and I have never seen any difference in power. All of them seem to hurt my fuel mileage. Before you go and say "no way" know that I have kept track of every single gallon of fuel that went into the truck and calculated the MPG by hand every time. I too have a excel spread sheet like Mike Ellis posted.



I now run Stanadyne as it was one of the higher rated additives andthe one reccomened to me by a mechanic at Cummins Northwest. I only run it about every 3 fillups and have no problems.



By the way, if you live in a cold climate its best to keep your stanadyne in the truck so its warm. If it gets cold it gels up a bit.

 

[AGrubbs]

Anyone use Howes?

I have been using Howes Lubricator. It comes in 1/2 gallon jug's at the local truck stop for $9. 95. Or a case of 6 for $39. 99.



Its supposed to protect down to -20 when used 1 jug to 700 gallons of fuel, and will raise the cetane 2-3 points.

The jug also says that it can be used when VERY cold out by double the dose. . 1 jug to 350 gallons of fuel.



I have used it in my old '87 Merc-benz and my TDI both with good results at -15F on straight #2 fuel so far.

This year I got my new CTD, and have been using it in there this Fall / winter.







Drive ON

 

[Forrest Nearing]

isn't Marvel Mystery Oil red? couldn't you get busted for running farm diesel if your tank got dipped?



Forrest

 

[JTBMC]

A friend with a Dura Max always used the marvel Mystery oil in his truck and has lost injectors twice in 100,000 miles and the Chevy Mechanic just told him that the Mystery to his blowing the injectors apart and filling the crank with diesel was the mystery oil.

TJ

I use Power Serve & Howes because its cheap and available close to the house

 

[Paulsdodge]

Additives

Hey guys,

I use the Shell DFA additive that I pickup locally at Walmart. What are your experiences with this additive?

 

[Mike Ellis]

tjlaffitte,



I never heard of it damaging an injector before, if a thin oil like MMO will damage an injector specifically designed to flow diesel it would sure be interesting to see the damage mechanism. Did the mechanic elaborate on why the additive would make the injectors fail - some sort of seal damage or ???



Forrest,



Good question. The EPA rules are different from IRS rules, no doubt the rules in the different states vary too. If the dye in MMO sets off the detector, I could be in big trouble when stopped. (Guys who use ATF would be in trouble in that case too). This is what Chevron has to say about the dyes in diesel fuel:



DIESEL FUEL DYEING

A confusing situation for both refiners and purchasers of diesel fuel has arisen because both the IRS and the EPA require the addition of red dye to certain classes of diesel fuel. However, each agency requires that the dye be added to a different class of fuel, at a different concentration, and for a different reason.

The EPA wants to identify diesel fuel with a high sulfur content in order to ensure that it is not used in on-road vehicles.

The IRS wants to ensure that tax-exempt low sulfur and high sulfur diesel fuel are not used for taxable purposes.





The EPA Requirements Originally, the EPA's low sulfur diesel regulations required the addition of blue dye to noncomplying high sulfur (>0. 05% mass) fuels. But after the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) expressed concerns that blue-dyed diesel fuel might be confused with the most common aviation gasoline, which already was being dyed blue, the EPA changed the dye from blue to red.



The EPA regulations require "visible evidence of the presence of red dye" to identify high sulfur fuels intended for off-road use. In practice, this requires refiners to add a level of red dye that is equivalent to no more than 0. 75 pounds/1000 bbl (ptb) of a solid Solvent Red 26 dye standard. Solvent Red 26 was chosen as the standard because it is a unique chemical available in pure form. Diesel fuels are actually dyed with liquid concentrates of Solvent Red 164 because this dye is more fuel soluble and less costly than the standard. Solvent Red 164 is a mixture of isomers that are very similar to Solvent Red 26, except the former incorporates hydrocarbon (alkyl) chains to increase its solubility in petroleum products.



Any red dye observed in the fuel of a vehicle in on-road use triggers a measurement of the fuel's sulfur content. Penalties are assessed based on the actual sulfur content of the fuel, rather than simply on the presence of dye.



The IRS Requirements The IRS regulations require that tax-exempt diesel fuels, both high sulfur and low sulfur, have a minimum level of a Solvent Red 164 dye that is spectrally equivalent to 3. 9 ptb of Solvent Red 26 dye standard. This level of dye is more than five times the amount required by the EPA regulations. The IRS contends that the high dye level is necessary to allow detection of tax evasion even after five-fold dilution of dyed fuel with undyed fuel.

 

[WadePatton]

So I mix a bunch of blue dye in the red stuff, I'll have purple and TWO gubment agencies in an uproar.

 

[Archive]

Another vote for MMO here, used since it left the lot.

As I infrequently check, cant comment on its impact upon mileage.



JJ

 

[SEmerson]

I have ran straight used veggy oil many times in my 97. Runs great less smoke.

 

[SEmerson]

Originally posted by tjlaffite

A friend with a Dura Max always used the marvel Mystery oil in his truck and has lost injectors twice in 100,000 miles and the Chevy Mechanic just told him that the Mystery to his blowing the injectors apart and filling the crank with diesel was the mystery oil.

TJ

I use Power Serve & Howes because its cheap and available close to the house

That is a dura max problem. It has nothing to do with a additive.