Power vs Turbo

[SOLER]

I was reading the ole TDR rag the other day. Issue 43. And I saw Joe D's article on his new 2004 and how we have the HY-35 (small) turbo on these trucks. I'm wondering just how much power can I add before I have to bomb the turbo?



Here is where I'm at. I got this truck for the extra leg room for my two boys. I loved my 2001. 5 HO with an EZ and stage two injectors, but the rear seat was just too small. However, the power was just what I needed. It was GREAT! Now, the new truck seems like a dog. I want that power back, plus a little more



So, where do I start? I know that the other truck was somewhere around ~325 hp and ~700+ lbs/ft torque at the wheels. I want to get around 350 hp and 750-800 lbs. If I put an EZ on, will I be there in rear wheel power? Or will I need to still add injectors? Then, where will I be with EGTs? Will I need to put on another turbo, or just a new housing? I know how turbos work, but where I get confused is talking about housing vs compressor wheels, etc. What will I need to do? I don't want to spend $1500 or more on a new turbo. The injectors themselves are already a bit pricey on these new trucks. Can I just get a larger housing for around $300-$500?



Anxiously awaiting some help! Thanks in advance



SOLER

 

[SRadke]

There are no exhaust housing options for these turbos. The only cheap option is Piers' "Bomber lite" turbo and it's only good for a couple hundred degree reduction at most. Might be just what you need and it's realtively cheap at 3-4 hundred dollars.



If 325 hp is all your after the stock turbo will likely do but you're pushing it a little. Order a Powermax CR from TST or wait for Edge to release their timing/pulse duration box. The TST can make HUGE power without injectors and is way more than a stock truck can handle. Fortunately with 9 setting adjustability you just dial it in to where ever you want it. Another benifit is it's available with built in gauges for $850. Happy bombing.



-Scott

 

[Joseph Donnelly]

The DD True Torque box (custom programmed Edge EZ) will give about 370 hp with the DD Jammer turbo (turbo is good for about 25 hp over stock, which dynos at 280; box gives 65). This would be a good and safe combination, and I have seen the numbers on the dyno. Thus, I can suggest it. The bigger boxes will be effective, but on higher settings will exceed this air system upgrade, and give too much egt, if the box is used at a high setting. Right now vendors are working on even bigger turbos for those willing to accept more lag. The minimal lag of the Jammer makes it a favorable choice because the electroic fueling control would exaggerate lag to keep smoke down with a bigger turbo. So, if you are towing or pulling heavy, that is about the maximum safe hp; for the occasional quick use of power, you can use maybe 100 more with a turbo upgrade like the Jammer. For comparison, with everything stock you can get 1275 deg. easily pulling a light trailer (5000 lb or so) up a grade on a 90 deg. day. That doesn't leave too much room for power increases with the stock turbo. I also recommend monitoring fuel pressure with power upgrades.

 

[SOLER]

So, if I read this correctly, I should be putting roughly 280 HP to the ground right now.



The box alone will put me at ~345



Turbo alone will put me at ~305



Together, ~370



Where will I be with the above, plus an intake upgrade and injectors. What sort of power, and will I have controllable egt's?



I'm not racing, mostly towing 12K-15K.



What I'm now thinking is this:



I already have a 4" exhaust. I'll put the EZ on for a while and see how it is. If I want more, I'll put the turbo and intake upgrade in there. This should put me over what I was with my other truck. If I still want more, I'll get injectors.



I'm not concerned about the clutch. I know I'll have to get a new one. I'm just concerned right now with the power vs turbo vs egt for the time being. In my '01, I thought about getting more power, but it would require a turbo upgrade, as it ran fairly hot with the EZ and injectors. That was the main reason i stopped. It was enough for me when weighing desire and budget.



I'm still asking the question about EGT probe location. Not pre vs post turbo. I'm talking where on the manifold. I put mine near the #3, and my EGT's seem low. I want to make sure I'm getting a good enough reading before I start putting all those other goodies on.



Thanks



SOLER

 

[SRadke]

The point I was trying to make was this, the best bang for your buck is a timing/duration box. Currently the only one on the market it TST's but Edge is close. With these boxes there is no need for injectors up to easily 400 hp. If you want to go the pressure box/injector route that will work as well but it will cost a little more. The turbo will probably need to happen either way.



-Scott

 

[SOLER]

Originally posted by SRadke

The point I was trying to make was this, the best bang for your buck is a timing/duration box. Currently the only one on the market it TST's but Edge is close. With these boxes there is no need for injectors up to easily 400 hp. If you want to go the pressure box/injector route that will work as well but it will cost a little more. The turbo will probably need to happen either way.



-Scott

Thanks, Scott. I hear ya, I'm just a little reluctant (stubborn is more like it) to try a new box when I really was happy with my EZ before. I will do some brousing on the TST, though. I've heard of a couple of others too that would be similar, and I could do it without injectors. I am trying to keep an open mind as I try to figure out the best thing for me with this new truck.



Decisions, decisions...



I certainly do appreciate any and all input, folks.



SOLER

 

[Big MAK]

SOLER; it's all about balanced upgrades and at what level you will be content.



Joe's post addresses your specific target as stated whereas Scott's looks from the power view. I can tell you from experience that you really shouldn't add any power to these trucks without some improvements to airflow (in and out; intake and exhaust). So the better balanced approach is something like Joe has pointed out. I think Scott's looking at it from the point of view that you'd be spending a good bit of money making limited gains.



If you're going to stop at the target you've mentioned; mid 300's for hp; go with the mild upgrades similar to what Joe has mentioned -- if you want to grow into something the TST can give you a-lot of power but you can't use it (much) until you upgrade your air flow for a balanced approach.

 

[SRadke]

That was well put Big MAK. Don't get me wrong I compleetly understand the importance of airflow improovmets. I have straight 4" exhaust, and AFE magnum force, and an ATS manifold ready to go on. I'm in the market for a turbo but currently I haven't found one that will do what I want. Too picky I guess.



-Scott

 

[SOLER]

Thanks guys. I think I have the info I need. I'm just going to get a box first. I might get the TST, but probably not. The EZ might just do the trick. But if not, I'll just gradually improve. If I see I need a new turbo, I'll get one when I need it.



I would like to see torque numbers from a DD or EZ box, and then numbers with an upgraded turbo. I like to see torque numbers more than hp, as I tow, not race. I liked the info Joe provided. Joe, (or anyone else with similar truck, similar mods) would you mind sharing your torque numbers? Thanks again.



SOLER

 

[KLockliear]

Stock 03 HO vs. TTPM on setting 4:



#ad

 

[SOLER]

Thanks KLockliear



So, it looks like with the box alone, I'm at ~345 hp and ~665 lbs? This might be enough. I'll have to get the box and hook up the 5th wheel. There are a few good hills not too far from me in upper Maryland.



I'll probably get the box in a few days and post results



SOLER

 

[hotram03]

Bombing

Hey Soler, my EGT gauge is in the front side of the exhaust manifold about 3/4" above turbo flange mount. I use an auto meter gauge and seems to be very acurate. My temps vary but I pull around 8,000 to 11,500 and my foot controls EGT's , harder you drive it of course the more they go up. You can go around 340 RWH on these trucks before clutch issues appear. NO MORE. Edge EZ will probably make you happy but if you go more as far as injectors you will need a TURBO. Monitor fuel pressure with an EZ box as well. Try DD's TTPM has a built in boost fooler, hope this helps.