PreLuber

[hammersley]

OK you folks have done it - I've been looking at this site for over a year and after buying a 2001 4 x 4 last summer, I found myself reading all the great stuff and wanting to ask the experts some questions - so I did what any person should do - JOIN TDR.

First - I love my truck. I've had it since June and have over 27,000 miles on it. It's been all over the Northwest - and it is the best driving machine I've ever had. Now my 1st question... We all want long life. I've seen the engine preluber's that the big rig's, and a lot of military and construction equipment use. We use them on huge turbines. I've found the following company - http://www.enginelube.com/ that seems to offer a great device. Look I don't have any personnel interest in this company - but if this device does what it's suppose to - WOW!

They say that over 90% of the wear on an engine occurs at startup when it's dry - this preluber brings the oil pressure up to operating levels - thus prelubing the engine prior to starting - largly eliminates dry starts. It also allows you to automatically have it run for up 5 minutes after shutdown to eliminate the turbo cooking problem by recirculating the oil. Does everybody have one of these and it's such common knowledge that I don't know about it or what? What's your thoughts.....

 

[Big-D]

Hammer,

I agree with your pre-lubing idea for any engine should have lubrication before they begin to rotate. That is certainly true for all the bearings and load bearing surfaces in your engine. However, I fail to see how this product will "splash" oil onto the cylinder walls to eliminate wear caused by the rings and combustion prior to start up.

Now, I may be as wet as old chicken standing out in the rain on the function of the pre-luber, but I'd like to hear how this system gets oil to my cylinder walls before I lay out my $$$. Bearings in an engine retain a certain amount of oil after shutdown due to clearance and therefore are "pre-lubed. " Granted, it would be nice to have actual pressure to them before turning, but nonetheless, there is still oil between the surfaces.

My vote is for keeping the engine warm (plug it in)for good oil circulation on start-up, change oil on a regular basis and once its running, keep it running. Will a pre-luber get me an extra 100K over normal conditions of operation if I have one? Maybe, maybe not. I'll be watching this post for I'm sure there are lots of guys smarter than me on this subject and I am interested in reading how others feel about this subject.

 

[hammersley]

Bid -D - you hit one of the areas I was concerned about as well. Do you think that having it up to lube pressure just minimizes the time it runs without pressure - the 2-3 seconds it take to build up I'm talking about. Now here's my thought process-I start my truck probably at least 5 times a day. If each time I wait two seconds for presure buildup - that's 10 seconds per day I run teh engine in an somewhat negative condition. In this example, 10 seconds a day times 360 days a year - well you get the idea - pretty soon we have hours of time running. Now it's not continuous - but there must be some benefit - but you're right - is it worth $500-600 However - what about the Turbo Cool Down Feature? Also there is another item - although I'm not sure on this one - there is a simple hydraulic connection that will allow you to run the preluber and power drain your oil - I guess it actually pumps all the oil out. I've always allowed mine to drain for at least an hour - usually overnight. On the overnight drain - I had an interesting thing happen to my neighbor when I was a youngster growing up in North Central Pennsylvania. He had his oil draining overnight - but had a family emergency and didn't have a car to drive at 3:00 AM. Good thing we had one. So while this probably will never happen - something to consider in all-night drains.

 

[Big-D]

Hammer,
I wrote to Pre-Lube this morning on their web page and they responded to me. I am still waiting for their answer back regading my reply to them. I will post it once that occurs. Here is there response to my initial question about cylinder wall lubrication. Dave

David

by having oil pressurize the sytem it is present at the injectors and pushed through to the walls at the moment of movement instead of having to travel the system and getting to the walls after a couple dozen strokes

eric

Subj: Re: Product Info Request Form
Date: 01/10/2001 10:24:07 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: Darrowda
To: EngineLube


Eric,

Thanks for responding to my question, but you have me confused. How is that pressurizing the injectors allows crankcase oil to be pushed through to the walls at the moment of movement? I am under the impression that cylinder wall lubrication is obtained from the connecting rods "dipping" into pan oil and splashing onto the walls. The oil helps the rings maintain a seal and also aids in cooling, wear and reduces friction.

I am not coming down on your product for I feel pressurizing the oil system is a plus. I just can't agree that what you have told me is accurate saying pressure against the injectors lubricates the cylinder walls with oil from above. Are we talking about oil under pressure or fuel as lubricating the walls in your response?

I am interested in your product, but need to have a better understanding of what I would like to purchase.
Dave

 

[jwgary]

I don't like that this thing attaches to your drain plug hole. That is another thing to get whacked off when off road. What would be the problem with someone making a pre-luber that just used the existing oil system? Could you adapt the existing mechanical oil pump to run off of an electric motor? That way you would get filtered oil (not through a cheap brass screen) and it would flow the way it is supposed to.

Big-D, I think he is referring to the holes on the ends of the piston rods that spray oil onto the back side of the piston and the cylinder walls. I don't really know how our engines are lubricated whether it's splash or spray, but they don't have a dipper like lawnmowers have that rely on splash. Splash is usually a cheap alternative and it robs horsepower and can cause foaming. This is why racers use crank wipers to get excess oil off of the roataing assembly.

[This message has been edited by jwgary (edited 01-10-2001). ]

 

[Big-D]

Here is the correction from Pre-Lube I received and promised to post.

Subj: Re: Product Info Request Form
Date: 01/10/2001 11:21:10 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: EngineLube
To: Darrowda

dave

in my hurry to answer the volumes of email we receive daily i must have said injectors -- sorry-- what i meant to say is that having the the lube system pressurized simply means that at the point of ignition there is oil already present in the system therefore the wear associated with dry start is illiminated. hope this clarifies

eric
800 836-8601

I'm done writing to them. Dave

 

[illflem]

My feeling is that some Cummins will go a million miles before a rebuild,most will go 500k,all without prelubers,why mess with one?Keeping the engine warm is the key,even though our engines will start at 20°below without the block heater, they don't like it. Cummins recommends using the block heater at temps below 30° and says they are required below 0°. I think their reason is for engine longevity as much as for easier starting.

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95' 25004X4,AT,Driftwood,Banks Stinger,Warn fender flairs and running boards(work truck)
95 3500,5 speed 3:54,Driftwood,Banks&Psycotty,34,000 GCVW apple and tractor hauler(works harder truck)

 

[Chad Sheets]

The cylinder walls get oiled via "spray jets".

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Always ready to help!
2000 2500 Red Sport quad cab, 4x4, K&N, DDI's, straight piped, boost, pyro and fuel pressure gages, Hot Power Edge, mean looking set of 33. 5" tires, Snap On diamond tool box, Marine Corps window sticker, Semper Fi!

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[HC]

Still got time to listen to some more opinions?
I think I'm with those that ask the question, if the engine already lasts 500k ++, then what does the preluber really give you that you don't already have?
My spin would be get a turbo cooldown timer or temp probe mated to engine shutdown to protect the turbo. This way, all the parts are moving together for initial cooldown. Cummins says the turbo is only one of multiple components that benefit from this gradual cooldown process; I doubt the preluber is as good in this department as just running the engine a minute or two longer. Also, if you won't always have access to electricity to run the block heater, then consider an Espar or Webasto heater. Expensive, but, in addition to helping save your engine from cold starts (no such thing anymore), they have a major secondary benefit for the luxury they provide in colder weather. Also safety, if you're one of those that start driving with frosty windows! A bypass filter system would another investment to consider for maximum engine protection. I don't have either the heater or the bypass system yet, but you can guess which purchases I'm evaluating... #ad


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2001 ETH, QC, LWB, 4WD, 3. 54, SPA Pyro & Boost, K&N RE-880 w/foam pre-cleaner, ARE Z-series Cab-high shell, Rear ARB locker, and all kinds of synthetic fluids...

 

[Bob V]

Another option besides a pump style preluber is an accumulator. As the engine runs, a 12 volt valve opens, the accumulator is slowly charged with oil. When the engine is shut off the valve closes and traps presurized oil in accumulator, when you go to restart the valve opens and drains the accumulator. I agree that a preluber is not nessasary unless the engine sits long periods, such as a motorhome.
Just my $. 02
Bob V



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'97 CC 5spd 4. 10 5spd 315/75 16,Bushwacker,TST 280hp.

 

[jmbrowning]

In over 25 years working in the automotive field (I'll admit, 99% gas engine) my observation is that engines rarely need overhaul because the bearings WORE OUT. Bearings may cause a problem due to running without oil (because of low oil level or restriction in the system), but they just don't wear out before the natural life of the engine. That is, the rings wear out, valves burn or guides wear out first; then while we're in there we go ahead and replace the bearings. I can't think of a single case of an engine job being done as a result of NORMAL bearing wear, there is some other reason to be in there first.

I guess my bottom line is that I agree with the thoery about the extra plumbing being a danger in itself, and not worth the risk and expense.

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