PREMO OIL REFINER v. AMSOIL DUAL BYPASS

[rweis]

The reason I asked was, I get an analysis from the oil lab on the oil, but that only tells me how the oil is doing ie "analysis indicates oil still ok for further use".



What I wanted to know is how the filter is doing. I asked the lab about particle analysis ie 1um xxxxxx, 2um xxxxxx, etc. Is the filter (in my case 3um B1000 (99. 9%), 1um B2 (50%) ) really getting what it is advertised to do? As far as filter loading the only thing I can figuer is flow rate out of the filter. Particle analysis would also tell you how the full flow filter is doing. It would also tell you what particle sizes are inside your engine causing wear.



I have read a ton of threads that users change the bypass filter at xxx miles. Well why that xxx miles, why not xxxxxxxxx miles.



I asked the lab about particle analysis and they said it is extremely difficult on "dark oil". The LASER reader has an awful time trying to figuer out the particle sizes and numbers because the sample is so black. They are going to try a dilution test to see if it will yield any meaningful information.



I'm trying to figuer out how to get meaningful information on the bypass filter and the actual wear particle size.



Bob Weis

 

[y-knot]

I have to say up front that I do not like the toilet paper or paper towel filters. I think they are stupid and very inconvenient, a mess to service and a EPA nightmare to dispose of.

Why would you wait till you run synthetics to mount up a dual by-pass filter?? It makes no since, the filter is there to clean the oil, synthetic or conventional.



I looked into the premo oil refiner, but didn't care for it. I have messed around with enough vehicles and their oiling systems to know what I want. And what I want is something simple that does the job. Is well made and will last, not crack or leak later on down the road. I do not want anything that requires alot of maintenance, and is part of the trucks oiling system. Most of all, I do not want to degrade anything that pertains to the life blood of my engine, so for me the premo was out.

I did mount up the Amsoil dual by-pass filter system, or at least part of it. The base that holds the two filters on the Amsoil system is very well made, it is a billet piece and will give long, UN-eventful service, just what I wanted. The other pieces they offer were not so well made. For the engine adapter I went to tri-state(?) machine, sorry if this is the wrong name, it has been a while. There they produce what has to be the most over built, beautiful engine adapter sold. Not the cheap-o cast aluminum like the others sell, this thing is billet, and built. For the lines I do not even think about push-on fittings, these need to be SS braided hoses with AN fittings.

I am telling you this so you do not end up stranded on the road with a blown motor. Yes you can buy a 5 dollar hose, and it will work for awhile, but sooner or later it will leave you in a bind. These engines make way to much vibrations to use anything but the best. And the way I see it, is if you can not afford to do it right, don't do it.

Amsoil also make a very nice pre-lubber, and if you are going to install where dual by-pass filter system, you should consider the pre-lubber. It bolts right up to the filter base and works by storing engine oil under pressure when you shut down the engine, but it releases it when the key is turned on, thus pre-lubing the engine with it's own oil prior to start-up.

It's a great system, with almost no moving parts and nothing to compromise the engine oiling system. A true win win.



Drawback to the dual by-pass oiling system. Yes there are a few.



1. the first would be the initial expense, a good dual by-pass system with quality parts runs around 400-500 dollars. And to add the pre-lubber figure another 350.



2. There is another expense... . the larger filters. I run the normal Cummins filter and the medium size by-pass filter.



3. Noise and vibration. It is very hard to insulate the filter base, and hoses from the rest of the truck. These engines produce alot of oil pressure/volume and the internal vibrations are transmitted through the hose and to the base. I used rubber to insulate the mounting base from the frame, and to insulate the mounting base from the filter base. This look most all the vibrations out, but you can still hear the noise. The hoses were also kept away from the body and other hard surfaces. Speaking of which, do not run anything under a #10 An hose, you need the size for the volume.

Also, there is a tremendous amount of pressure put on the hoses and filter mount, make sure what ever you use to mount the filter base that it is mechanically sound and can support the load.





Bottom line, is their is nothing more important on your truck then the engine oil system. Treat everything you do to it as if your engines life depends on it..... because it does. This is no place for cheap. I used alot of paragraphs because everyone always complains about me not using them, good luck.

 

[ToolManTimTaylor]

I used alot of paragraphs because everyone always complains about me not using them, good luck.

Naaah Y you use 'em ... just one big one at a time



:-laf :-laf #ad






Good point :

For the lines I do not even think about push-on fittings, these need to be SS braided hoses with AN fittings.

I am telling you this so you do not end up stranded on the road with a blown motor. Yes you can buy a 5 dollar hose, and it will work for awhile, but sooner or later it will leave you in a bind. These engines make way to much vibrations to use anything but the best.

Without any doubt!!! I had a isspro sending unit just plain break off from vibration.

 

[RDietze]

Why would you wait till you run synthetics to mount up a dual by-pass filter?? It makes no since, the filter is there to clean the oil, synthetic or conventional.

that is a fair question - with synthetic, i would intend to go to more extended oil changes to offset the increase expense in syn oil.

so you are saying that i could use the fleetguard stratapore filter as my main "big" filter? i did not know that. i'm not to fond of buying expensive filters for "oil" peddlers.

do you know what the stratapore/microglass oil filters "filter" down to?



thanks for your input

 

[rweis]

Info only:



Doing a google search for "ISO Cleanliness Codes" on page 3 of the results there is a reference to "dieselplace.com" another diesel forum. If you go there and search for 16/15/12 (ISO 4um,6um,14um) there is a thread on bypass filters with ISO results. Interesting reading.



Bob Weis

 

[LightmanE300]

I agree with most of what Y-knot has posted aside from the price. RDeitze I suggest you contact tdr member CPFF (John Strenkowski/Tri-County Machine) and he will set you up. As awesome as the oil analysis results are with this setup, I can't possibly see a justification for the increased cost of the premo. Let's not forget these things run 500K on regular rotella T I think the amsoil kit is around $180, and the rest of the billet mount, adapter, and ss lines may be around the same. Figure around $360 for everything, for the ultimate plug and play setup, no drilling, no hum. You can see a pic of the billet mount and ss lines in my reader's rigs. John is a great guy, do a search for his info.

 

[KYLE4]

The premo mounts next to alternator and the return heads over to a soft plug on the side of Block above oil pan.

I went to the Diesel Power Products web page and read the literature for the PREMO OIL REFINER.



I have a couple of questions:



There are other bypass filters that does pretty much the same thing (especially the heater) and some of the arguments I read were:



1. What is the heater about? The oil is already at or very near 195*F as it is in the engine. It is an extra failure point. Does 195*F really rid the oil of fuel dilution, water and liquid contaminants? Why would the engine not do that naturally? We do vent the oil system to the atmosphere.



2. It talks of gravity return. Meaning you have to mount it above what? If oil is entering under pressure why does it not exit under pressure?



Does state what it filters (3um) and at what % (97. 8), which few others do.



How are you going to know if the filter clogs early (ie on a already dirty inside of the engine)?



"Periodic laboratory oil analysis will virtually eliminate oil changes and disposal costs". I would not get too wrapped up with that statement. You have to have the oil analyzed periodically to see how the oil is holding up (metals, insoluables, additive package, water %, fuel %, particulate levels, etc), and I think it will get dumped periodically. However that is no different with any EOCI (Extended Oil Change Interval).



I offer "Lubefinder.com" a industrial oil analysis site that has some good info on it. There are a couple of threads here in TDR about EOCI . Another site Nodia.com is a commercial oil site with good information.



I do think you are on the right track (bypass filtering) without a doubt! I also think the seperate bypass unit is a better unit than the "dual" ones because you can check the flow rate (quantity / time) of the bypass filter to help determine if it clogs early (mine flows 1 qt / 60 sec, warm oil, 35 psi, idle). (Specifically addressing the subject line).



Welcome to the bypass filter experimenters, we all have a learning curve that we can help each other with.



Bob Weis

 

[Rman]

For what it's worth I run the amsoil single bypass and use the fleetgaurd stratapore full flow filter. It was easy to install and relatively cheap. I think it was under 200 bucks. I wasn't a big fan of routing ALL the engine oil away from the engine like in the dual bypass. It's probably just paranoia, but I set my system up so If I have a leak I can close a needle valve and be running back on the stock system.



I drilled and tapped my valve cover for the oil return line. I run Valvoline Premium Blue 15-40 on 7500 mile change intervals. I change the bypass filter every other time and the full flow every time.



I'm a big fan of amsoil, but choose to run conventional oil with good filtration. It saves me money in the long run, but I still have that piece of mind of having fresh oil in there.

 

[mhenon]

I think the TP system is a joke - you're constantly changing tp , and adding oil, basically changing a small part of your oil all the time. Seems like a waste of time to me. I prefer the traditional bypass approach, like Amsoil's or Oilguard. I had an oilguard on my last vehicle, and it was great - however the filter elements are a major pain/mess to change. I got the Amsoil setup this time because of the easy spin on filters and relocating the full flow to an easily accessible location (I don't have to get under the truck). TDR member CPFF makes a nice battery box mount for the amsoil setup for 2nd gens. .

Lightman... couldn't disagree with you more on this one. Since installing the Frantz TP filter. . my oil still looks clean after 20k miles of use. Topping up with a quart of fresh oil every time I change the "roll" is exactly what I like about it. There's no need to ever pull the plug and drain 3 gallons of oil.

As for the wasted time... it takes me all of five minutes to changes TP. I can have it done before you can get a filter wrench on the OEM filter.

As we are full-time RV'ers... crawling uder the truck and draining oil... and disposing of it... can be a hassle. Might not be for everyone... but it's been working well for us.

I change the regular filter once a year. I doubt that it's doing anything at this point... but am concerned that the filter media might break down after continued use.

Mike

 

[Starbuc4]

ditto on the frantz :-laf

 

[nps]

i am looking at possibly getting a bypass system when/if i switch over to synthetic oil. does anyone have any pros or conns with the above oil bypass systems?



thank you

There is a thread here where they are discussing the dual bypass. Sounds like some issues with the design that is being tested, as discussed on this thread .