Preporator Airdog

[Rman]

David, just a sugestion for your scenario. Leave the stock fuel system in place and with the changing of a few capped fuel lines you should be up and running in no time. It's what I plan on doing if I ever do get an airdog. All the doubters I really encourage you to call Charles and talk to him. He's very knowledgable and can really express himself well. He cleared the mud with me a while ago, I'm just a cheapskate so to speak.

 

[CEkstam]

Hi David,



The before and after spray patterns that we placed in our literature were done by the University of Illinois College of Engineering. The before was with normal fuel, the after was done after installing a Preporator on the system. The 'before' only shows a lag. We point out in our demos that the before spray pattern will eventually spread to the same as the 'after' pattern. The problem that is created is the lag or injection delay that results in a shorten burn time, a shorter power stroke that creates less that designed power, etc. This is historically common on all pre-common rail engines. "Distributor Pump" systems that incorporate injector lines from the injector pump to the nozzle have a greater improvement in performance that the unit injectors. Unit injection systems have the barrel, plunger and nozzle in one assembly and therefore do not have as much fuel (and air/vapor entrained) in the high pressure area of the system as does the injector lines of the pre-common rail 5. 9.



It is my understanding that, in California any alterations to a fuel system that could effect a change in exhaust emissions require an Executive Order by CARB before the sale, use or advertising for sale is legally allowed.



California Regulation # 27156 of the Vehicle Code States:

"(c) No person shall install, sell, offer for sale, or advertise any device, apparatus, or mechanism intended for use with, or as a part of, any required motor vehicle pollution control device or system which alters or modifies the original design or performance of any such motor vehicle pollution control device or system. "



I think the fuel system of the diesel engine falls into this catagory. The code also states:



"(d) If the court finds that a person has willfully violated this section, the court shall impose the maximum fine that may be imposed in the case, and no part of the fine may be suspended. "



I was simply pointing out that a fine could result. It is our intention to provide a product that not only meets the needs of the customer but is in compliance with state and federal regulations.



About the wiring harness: The relay wiring harness included with the AirDog still allows the cycling of the lift pump by the ECM which replicates the original pressure flows on start up. The relay is used to eliminate the possibilities of high amp draws even though the ECM is most likely internally protected. The pressure regulator of the AirDog maintains a 15psi flow while the engine is running. The volume capability of the system is designed to meet the needs of the 5. 9 Cummins at stock HP and for most engines modified up to and slightly over over 500HP.



Concerning the quality of our lift pump! The AirDog utilizes a lift pump assembly incorporating many of our original pump designs. The pump has evolved through research and testing and has stood up to many millions of miles of use by owners of 18 wheelers of which many individually exceed 150,000 miles annually. I agree with Rman! A back up plan is always a great idea. Our product is a great design made of the highest quality materials but, we all carry a spare tire for emergencies.



As far as mounting the AirDog as shown on TV inside the frame, I agree with Scott, there is not enough room on all pickups. We have a second option which I recommend and unless you ask for the "inside the frame " bracket we send this one. It allows the AirDog to be mounted on a bracket that attaches to the front left bed channel and additionally, in most cases the frame/bed mounting bracket. This will all be on our web site in the near future.



David, all in all I agree with you!!! I wouldn't and neither would I expect anyone else to put a sub standard or questionable product on a vehicle, such as a fuel lift pump, that could shut it down unexpectedly. However, the low pressure indicator light that we have used to signal filter changes on 18 wheelers for last 7 years also signals low fuel pressure from early symptoms of pump failure long before it happens. Our pump motors are rebuildable!



I hope this will give all a better idea of the AirDog!



Thanks,



Charlie

 

[dresslered]

Thank you for the informative response Charlie. The thought that I had regarding the power FET (if I am not mistaken) is that though the relay allows for isolation from the ECM (a very good idea), it will not respond fast enough to the ECM's modulation during start-up thus the potential for hard starts and a little more initial smoke (though I can't imagine anyone here caring about that too much). I think that the FET would not only offer the isolation needed but would also mirror exactly the actions of the ECM. I'll be watching your product closely.



David

 

[SRadke]

Originally posted by Preporator

We have a second option which I recommend and unless you ask for the "inside the frame " bracket we send this one. It allows the AirDog to be mounted on a bracket that attaches to the front left bed channel and additionally, in most cases the frame/bed mounting bracket. This will all be on our web site in the near future.

Charlie, do you have any pictures of this? You may just have earned yourself another customer.



-Scott

 

[hasselbach]

I'd like to see actual dyno comparisons before and after on a dodge or similar motor. I'm not to impressed with some college doing some test that is supposed to have occured at some time... (blah blah blah)



Has anyone actually done a dyno test to back up the claims made? The two guys garage clip was a joke, those goof balls did a dyno test after they installed not only charlies product, but a chip and exhaust system. What a waste of 30 minutes watching that show.



Anyone, dyno results? Charlie, I'm sure you've tested it on a Cummins or Duramax with some results. .

 

[GIT-R-DONE]

Originally posted by GIT-R-DONE

I too was VERY disappointed in the Two Guys Garage Show featuring the Air Dog system. Why on earth after all the talk about the gains in HP/TQ that is advertised for this system, would they not dyno it, right there in front of everyone on TV to PROVE it. Makes one believe maybe there isnt any gains by it. I have been involved with many threads between the FASS system and the Preporator system, and its just a disappointment that the claims weren't backed up. Sorry but the dyno results for a class 7-8 truck do me no good as I DONT HAVE A CLASS 7-8 Truck.



Oh well, just left even more room for speculation of the system. I think I'll stick with what I have for now until it gives up and then Ill look at what is in the market at that time. So far, I like what I have.



I would still like to find out what the size difference is between the Air Dog and the one for the class 8 trucks on the highway. Where do you get the filters at... . that type of thing.

Hasselbach... ... . we already went through that... ... . but no response from good ole Charlie.

 

[CEkstam]

About dynos on the "Two Guy's Garage" program. The producers controlled the content of the show and the order that it was to be presented. I posted before and still agree with all of you that I also would very much have liked to have had a dyno with just the Preporator 'before and after' results. At some time in the future, we will do a before and after dyno.



Here are pictures and figures from our installation manual that depict the 'bed channel' mounting bracket for the AirDog.















Also are included are the pictures and figures for the "return to tank" filler tube assembly. Installing this assembly allows filling the fuel tank while the engine is running without giving you a diesel fuel shower.

 

[hasselbach]

Charlie, I think you have a neat product that you are selling, I only question the fact that I keep hearing about all of this delayed injection timing that your product prevents, and all of this increased performance claims, but I would think if you are selling to Dodge, Ford, Chevy diesel owners, you would, as a manufacture, test your product on those engines with factual data posted. Hearing about some college blind test, placebo yada yada on earth moving engines leaves me suspect. A dyno day would be peanuts in cost and I would think add considerable support to your unit. Just my opinion.

 

[quadzilla]

I have begun the installation of the AirDog on my truck. I ordered the High Performance version. I was called ahead of the shipping, and told that they were no longer going to be selling the basic version, and that all were going to be the high performance version and would be sold at the lower price. I was only charged the lower price, but all labeling and numbers on the product received indicate that I did not get the high performance version as ordered.



I had thought that it was something that could have been accomplished relatively easily. I think that the initial quality is there. I like the heaviness of the brackets and the components. So far, I just have the brackets mounted, and the unit mounted to the brackets. I have not run the new fuel lines or the harness, so I can not offer any input to that. Here are my thoughts on the product thus far. Keep in mind, I am a moderately novice mechanic, so bear with me. The sketches in the instructios are a bit hard to follow at times.



1. It took some test fitting of the components to figure out the orientation of everything. Once that was figured out, the following problems were encountered.



2. The bracket that mounts to the bed mount bolt has a flange on it that was too wide to fit within the webbing of the bed brace, so it took some time with a grinder to get it to fit, and then had to be re-painted. Perhaps of no significance, but one I think needs mentioning, is that a new bed mount bolt should be provided, as you are decreasing the threads by the thickness of the bracket. I am sure it will still be okay.



3. The bracket should have been conformed to not only fit inside the web, but also to contour to then fit flush with the bed channel. Stainless steel washers were used to space down so that the bracket fit level.



4. The backing plate did not fit well within the bed channel, as it was very difficult to line up the holes for the bolts. I think it was hitting the area where the bed mount bolt comes down through the bed.



5. The stainless steel fasteners that mount the airdog unit to the bracket were not long enough. There was only one or two threads showing when the fasteners were inserted, not even allowing the nuts to be turned more than a ¼ turn. So a search had to be done at a hardware store for adequate replacement fasteners.



6. In a system that costs 700 dollars, I think that if a fuel resistant thread sealer tape is required, that it could have been included. I had a heck of a time even trying to find it, and am sure it could have been bought in bulk and thrown in the kit. Seems stupid to get to the point where you need sealer to install the fittings, and then have to run to a store to get it, without your vehicle to get there. And also, are we to believe that the hoses will stay on the barbed fittings without hose clamps? Shouldn't clamps be included in the kit as well. I am struggling with the concept of a kit that is of this caliber and price, with this lack of attention to the details and the little things that cost next to nothing, but are extremely vital.



And this was what I have run into in the installation thus far. Perhaps for people who own or have access to a shop, these are insignificant issues. But for someone trying to install this in a garage with basic tools, some of these are quite significant. There isn't any mention of having to lift the bed, or drop the tank to install the fuel pickup hose, but I am trying to figure out how to accomplish that. I will post more later when the fuel lines and harness are installed. I am not bashing the product at all. In fact, I think it will be a very good product once it is installed, if it performs as good as it is supposed to. Just wanted to bring to light some of the things I see as a non-expert when it comes to installation.



--Craig

 

[Roger rodbolt]

I hope that I may be of assistance!

Hello Craig,

My name is Larry Crawford and it's been a while since I've actively posted on TDR but it's good to be back. I am a diesel enthusiast first and foremost with nine years experience in a Dodge dealership, twenty years in my own 6 bay repair shop and more recently a public servant. I've owned 1rst, 2nd and 3rd Gen. CTD's and currently own a 1998. 5 and a 2004. In May of this year I was hired to bring the AirDog to market and continue to work for Ekstam Worldwide, the home of Fuel Preporator. I've personally done ten or more Dodge/AirDog installations and give out my personal cell phone number to all customers and dealers for assistance, even on nights or weekends. I work daily to improve our product and bring new products to market. Please don't hesitate to contact me at our toll free # or my cell # but I'll try to address your issues here.



1. The heavy AirDog bracket is designed to be formed to shape/fit by drawing it into position with the bed bolt. The 1/4" steel in our bracket will easily be formed (concave) using an impact but takes a bit of wrenching by hand. The next production run will not use the bed bolt and will mount the way that you did it, just as we now do with the Ford Powerstroke and the 3rd Generation CTDs.



2. If the backing plate does not lay flat in the bed channel most likely there is thin flashing left from the hole you drilled, just ream the hole a bit with your drill bit.



3. If the stainless steel mounting bolts are short it means that the lightweight bracket is installed improperly. The AirDog has countersunk bolt holes for the allen screw head to recess. The bracket cutout ovals should surround the brass fuel fittings. The included installation pictures should help.



4. We don't recommend thread sealer "Tape", just a bit of pipe thread paste on the two threaded fittings that screw into the AirDog. Teflon tape is not recommended for diesel fuel injection systems. Any good pipe dope will work on the two pipe thread fittings, I use the same Teflon paste that I keep for home plumbing. No sealer is needed on any of the flared fittings.



5. The Parker-Hannifin push lock fittings and the Boston Weatherhead fuel lines do not require clamps and are rated for more pressure then your VP-44 will withstand (or our system can produce).



6. We don't mention lifting the bed or dropping the tank because you can disconnect the OEM fuel line from under the truck. You can reach between the tank and bed to disconnect the fuel line. This is the toughest part of the install, especially if you aren't familiar with factory fuel lines. An experienced friend may help here. Our line installs easily after you release the factory line but don't forget to remove the blue plastic lock from the tank if it is displaced from the OEM fuel line.



I appreciate all feedback from you and all AirDog installer/owners. One dealer called raving about our product, saying his first install was accomplished in 45 minutes and working great. First time owner/installers have reported spending from 2 hours to all day Saturday to complete an install. I'll PM you my cell phone and thank you for your purchase.



Larry Crawford

North American Sales Manager

Light Truck Division, Ekstam Worldwide

 

[jcbrown]

AirDog™ Installed...

... posted here.



Oo.

 

[hasselbach]

Larry, good information. Question. Many on this site have posted repeatedly asking Charlie to post actual dyno results before and after, yet he typically responds with test results on some Tug boat or a university research project that is impossible to find. How about posting some actual before and after results using your product. I recently dynoed my duramax with another persons identical truck a few weeks ago. We were running the same boxes, afe units, both 4x4's, similar miles. The only difference was mine had a stanadyne lift pump and the other truck had the air dog. End result was I put out 20 more hp and about 50 ft lbs of torque, regardless of level 0 or 5 on the Edge box.



Thanks for your reply.



Tim

 

[mcoleman]

I've seen identical stock trucks make up to 40hp difference without any power mods so it is possible that your dyno numbers have nothing to do with your different fuel systems. For an objective test you would need to dyno your truck without the added pump and then dyno your truck with an aftermarket pump. I didn't buy the Air Dog with a hp gain in mind, I bought it due to having bought 4 lift pumps in 153,000 miles. That's been the only failure on the whole truck but I've had enough. Plus I'm in the process of adding a large amount of hp in the next couple of weeks and need the added fuel flow.

 

[hasselbach]

I've seen identical stock trucks make up to 40hp difference without any power mods so it is possible that your dyno numbers have nothing to do with your different fuel systems. For an objective test you would need to dyno your truck without the added pump and then dyno your truck with an aftermarket pump. I didn't buy the Air Dog with a hp gain in mind, I bought it due to having bought 4 lift pumps in 153,000 miles. That's been the only failure on the whole truck but I've had enough. Plus I'm in the process of adding a large amount of hp in the next couple of weeks and need the added fuel flow.

If there was a 40 hp difference between IDENTICAL trucks, then either the dyno operator was doing something wrong, or there was a major problem with one of the trucks.



I've seen the air dog unit, and although it is very well made, I still find it odd that all the manufacturers claims of additional HP are never backed up with either the Cummins or Dmax, etc tests. I think if you are going to sell something and make these claims as part of your marketing push, you need to have test results to back them up.



On a side note which doesn't pertain to the Cummins issue, but is very common on the dmax, is the FASS and Prep units actually drain the fuel bucket in the Dmax fuel tank and actually cause starving problems due to the high amount of fuel that they recirculate. Another issue that we noted was that the units seemed to create more foam in the tank by introducing a large amount of bypass fuel flow in the filler outlet, which created more foam in the tank (which is what you were trying to prevent in the first place).



If you tell yourself that you need it because of all this forthcoming HP power you are adding, great. But many have made significant power with stock lift pumps or other less expensive methods of added fuel enrichment.

 

[mcoleman]

Less expensive methods have been tried and they have all failed. Currently the FASS and Air Dog are the only units out that have not had major failures and seem to maintain their pressures. All of the PE pumps, Holleys, etc. . haven't proven themselves to be a investment that you can forget about. I've ran most of those pumps off and on for 20 years on various race cars and they have all failed at that also. They do not have a long lifespan. Both the Fass and Air Dog units are from the over the road industry and have proven themselves to be able to live for 100,000s of thousands of miles. Is the fuel bucket on the max tank less than a quart or are the fuel lines capable of holding several gallons of fuel? GMs fuel injected gassers have much higher fuel pressures than the either the FASS or the Air Dog and don't seem to have this problem.

 

[tractorface]

Fuel buckets draining on Dmax

I think the Dodge' have this problem also, I did away with my fuel bucket and the results were noticeable. Quieter FASS, and VP, much smoother power as well. I personally don't think the quality or flow of the Dodge buckets is consistant at all. Many will have problems and some will not. My guess is the bucket flow is just enough to keep the problem from being super obvious but not enough to realize the full benefits of either the AirDog or the Fass. I would like to see a test where someone with no HP gain on a AD or Fass, tried running again aith the bucket eliminated and se if there is a gain. From what I know the "foam" on top is not really a problem. You would not want to return a large amount of fuel below the tank fuel level as that would cause air problems.



Anyone know if the Dmax returns fuel to the bucket, Dodge returns the VP fuel to the bucket

 

[tshunt]

Well, I decided to go with the F. A. S. S 150gph system, mainly because of the price. Everyone seemed happy with the F. A. S. S. who have been on this sight. So far I am pleased as well. Engine definitely smoother, starts quickly- even in the cold of the N. W. Acceleration is about the same, the smoothness probably makes it feel faster. I don't have my pressure gauge hooked up yet and have not ran out a tank of fuel to check mileage, so nothing to report on these.

 

[Digger]

Ever since I installed my airdog I have had a problem with my FP gauge. When I floor it the gauge bounces from end to end. I didn't have this problem with the previous system I was running. Anyone have any idea's?????????????



thanks digger

 

[tractorface]

Wierd

I may be way off but my first thought is you are sucking the fuel out of the OEM bucket very quickly losing pressure than it recovers and your pressure goes back to normal. The OEM bucket has a fine screen and a small plastic valve, the bucket can be sucked dry by an aftermarket pump system such as the Airdog. I believe this is why we have seen some failures.



Anyway just a thought. Curious to hear what you find. I am not familiar with the AD or where the gauge is plumbed so ask around a little more.

 

[Huff N Puff]

I like my Preporator.

Its works really well for me.