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Presidential race in 2008

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A Lawnmower Question

Blaire Pine is 40 or Lordy!!!!

I see no reason to slam Illflem for posting information that has been in several published articles, no sense shooting the messager.



That said, I did go out and read the linked articles and my view is that they are stinking morass of BS. According to the definitions of "dry drunk" behaviour they list in the various pieces, everybody I know from myself to my 5-yr old is a "dry drunk".



Addiction and recovery are a terrible process for anyone to endure, and I am not all that sure that complete recovery is ever possible judging from the experiences of people in my immediate circle. My youngest brother-in-law rots away in a treatment center at this very moment for drug addiction, having violated his parole yet again in spectacularly stupid manner. First parole violation was to be caught raising some weed in his back yard. His next door neighbor being a cop, with a clear view of the proceedings, this was less than bright. After his arrest, when asked why he did something so stupid with a cop next door, he answered, "Aw, he's my buddy. He wouldn't do nothin' about it. "



After a year or so in a boot camp treatment program (for about the nth time) he comes back home full of fire and zeal, Bible in each hand and stern words for all the rest of us teetering on the edge of perdition. This brave new outlook lasted approximately as long as it took him to skedaddle down the road and reconnect with his circle of loser friends and start "using" again. This time around, he invented himself a secret-agent-like identity and began passing information on all the OTHER druggies to the cops, using this unofficial undercover activity as the excuse to start up on drugs again - "hafta blend in with the targets see... ". When he strolled in to the probation guy to take his next pee test, he was outraged that the guy didn't accept his Austin Powers rationale for the positive test and cried about his infringed rights and important crusade all the way to the pokey. Once again, back in treatment (almost 2 years this time) and holier than ever.



I described the above excerpts (only a couple out of many, many episodes of BIL idiocy) to compare the experiences I've had with addicts against President Bush. Both of my grandfathers were alcoholics, the prototypical mean drunk variant, and their families were laid waste in truly tragic fashion - abject poverty, mental and physical violence, you name it. Many of my other family members have had alcohol destroy their lives, seemingly wiping out their own free will and ability to do much of anything except to screw up anything and everything they touch.



I contrast this with the behavior of someone like President Bush, who has functioned on an incredibly high level - graduating from college TWICE, becoming a fighter jet pilot (NOT an easy thing to do by any stretch of the imagination), serving as Governor of a large state, and becoming President of the United States to boot.



He must be what you call a "high functioning" addict or something. All I know, is he has done about 10,000% better than any addict I have ever known in my life, somebody needs to find out what he was drinking or taking and I will write it down and hand it over to all my addiction-prone friends and family.



coldsteel,



You were joking about Mexico invading Texas, but in fact this is an ongoing process and Mexico has made it clear they intend to eventually retake the Southwestern United States through illegal immigration. It's working like gangbusters so far, come on down to Texas and drive around San Antonio, Houston, DFW, and count the number of TV and radio stations that have become Spanish language only for instance. Things have changed dramatically in the last 15 years or so.
 
CF, you voting for Hillary Klinton is of no surprise. She is a joke, and you voting for her, on her merits, just about sums up everything you have ever posted here. :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
I musta missed the post where CF said he'd vote for Hillary Clinton. What he said was she wasn't electable - how'd that get turned into him voting for her?
 
Re: Another Clinton Administration

Originally posted by loncray

Yes, I guess the country has to fear another 8 years of prosperity and peace - the longest sustained economic boom in our history. :rolleyes:



Let me see... . Bosnia, Somalia, Branch Davidians, Elian Gonzales...

Real peaceful huh?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:



BTW, I wouldn't give Bubba all of the credit in turning the economy around. He was merely present when things were going good.
 
A point made!!!!

BTW, I wouldn't't give Bubba all of the credit in turning the economy around. He was merely present when things were going good. (After 12 years of Republican Leadership in the White house I might add)



And why hasn't anybody mentioned J. C. Watts from OK. Watts / Rice in '08 is a ticket I would vote for without a doubt.
 
I'll take Bosnia and David Koresh burning himself down over Iraq any day. And while I don't give President Clinton all the credit for the economic boom, his executive branch put in place many of the elements that let it happen, and got his agenda (at least some of it) past the Republican Congress.
 
Oh, yes, 12 years of Republican leadership - and the economy was a mess most of that time (not that it was any better under the 4 Democratic years prior to that).

:rolleyes:
 
Alan Greenspan is the main element in ANY economic discussion, and he was Charman of the Fed. waaay before Clinton got in the White House.



I like J. C. Watts. I remember when he played football for OU, even though I did not like the team (especially the coach). He is a very astute politician, and would be a good candidate.
 
Yes, Greenspan and the Fed are AN important part of the equation - but not the only one. If they were, the economy wouldn't have been so up and down during his tenure. World economies, Treasury policies, mood of the people - there are many many things that make up the economy. And I believe that, in terms of those things the President and his people have control over - Bill Clinton and his people did a better job than any President before or since. And he was certainly smart enough to keep Greenspan!
 
All you Clinton lovers need to read Dereliction of Duty by Lt. Col. Robert Patterson, USAF (Ret. )



He carried the 'nuclear football' for several years for Clinton and gives you a firsthand report on the "it's all about me" Clintons!



It's a good thing ignorance does not violate the 1st amendment. There are some members here I even question why they drive Cummins. It seems that would be a step above their intelligence level.



GET REAL! The Clintons and their like set about to destroy democracy, individual freedom, and America!



BTW - Bill can't even raise enough money to get matching funds for his presidential library. Some of you Bush haters need to send Bill your donations!



... . and I make NO apologies for being more intelligent than some of you Clinton lovers/Bush haters. Firsthand knowledge of experiencing the Clintons is much easier to believe.
 
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1.

I sure hope you who say Hillary is not electable are correct; But i am still fearfull.

Your analysis depends upon a somewhat informed voter and unfortunatly for the county, all to many voters get their view of the candidates, and the issues, from the likes of Jenning, Brokaw, Moyers, etc. There is a long list of those news types would be all to eager to spin her into the virgin mary.

She just did the key note address to a 1500 person Demo. gathering somewhere, and is by most considered to be the most powerfull Demo. at this time. I think she is gearing up for '08.

I hope you guys are right, but fear that she is too slippery and shrewd to be counted out, and to many voters too uninformed to see her for what she is. Then there are a whole bunch more who do not care; many of the above referenced groups would vote for her no matter what---unless, there is someone on the other side to pull those groups.



2

Powell seems like a pretty solid buy, but I have trouble seeing him being sufficient to get elected. J. C. Watts, I like, and I like J. C. and Condi together, but I doubt the country would go that far yet.





3. Those countrys who would mess with us??

Tote up a list all the "attacks" we have sufferred----embassy bombing, mogadishu, USS Cole, etc and the countrys that have supported, financed and encouraged the individuals and groups who carried them out-------yup, I'd say some countrys need to get the message that the days of "saying" those responsible will be caught and punished are replaced by days of those---and their supporters---actually being punished.

Slick willy was all talk (well, I suppose he did more than talk with "ms lewinsky"--course it wasn't sex)

Looks like GWB has something thats been missing in DC, some courage and integrity to go with the talk.

Thank God for GWB!!!!!!!!!



Vaughn
 
merryman, I do like your way of thinking. If ever you are down this way, look me up. I know some good Mexican places, and a few steak houses. It's on me.
 
Maybe

Maybe the Dems could get Norman Schwartzkopf to run in 04? I would go that route. :D



Courage and integrity are not what GWB are about. It is all about me with the present administration. I don't know why or how you consider the invasion and occupation of foreign country's a viable solution in the war against terror. Where are the leaders of the Tali ban? Where is Saddam? Where is Osama? How many Al Queda agents have we caught in Iraq so far? How much money and lives have to be thrown on the fire to have people realize this is not a reliable or economic method of catching terrorist factions? I am sure you all feel all warm and cozy with Iraq in American hands right now. But, for just a minute think. Where are the WMD? Where are the Al Queda agents? Where is Saddam, Osama, and the biggies in Iraq? To find out we would have to go into Syria, Saudi, Iran, Pakistan, Turkey, Lebanon, Egypt, and every country over there! How would you rationalize that? With courage and integrity? Not hardly. :D Something tells me the pro-bush team can't rationalize much at all... . :D
 
Well, I have no worries about my own intelligence level - nor that of anybody here. However, moderate doesn't mean stupid (or ignorant), no matter what JumboJet believes. For that matter, liberal doesn't mean stupid either, nor does it mean you hate America. It's just a different way of wanting things done. Attacking somebody's intelligence or patriotism because they disagree with you is not debating an issue, it's just plain attack politics. Unfortunately, it's the only argument many on the right have to support their policies.

Bill Clinton was president for 8 years. The country had it's longest sustained economic boom in history during that time, and no major wars. You cannot dispute these facts. You can argue that Clinton policies decimated the military, but somehow President Bush was able to use that same military 2 years later to fight two undeclared wars. Guess the decimation wasn't all that bad after all.

I believe Iraq is going to be a quagmire, worse than Viet Nam ever was. We're in there to free the people - so we end up having to shoot them to protect ourselves. Sound familiar?

If attacking other nations was what it was all about, why didn't the Reagan Administration attack Lebanon after the Beirut bombing? We did attack Libya - one good bombing strike that seems to have gotten the message across. But where's the attack on Saudi Arabia and Yemen? You know, where the hijackers came from?

And where's the WMD's? For that matter, how long is it going to take us to restore order to Iraq? How many American lives will we lose in that process.
 
Originally posted by loncray

Attacking somebody's intelligence or patriotism because they disagree with you is not debating an issue, it's just plain attack politics. Unfortunately, it's the only argument many on the right have to support their policies.




Huh?
 
They just don't get it that a person can dislike GW without loving Clinton or any other Demo for that matter.

It eludes to some of GW's qualities I stated in a previous post -



a kill or be killed mentality, tunnel vision



black and white polarized thought processes (good versus evil, all or nothing thinking).



absolutely no in-betweens
 
it is thinking like yours that got us to the point we are in now. Liberals have walked the fence and taken the neutral or least offensive stance for so manty years. It has raised a bunch of scared weenies. I like the kill or be killed attitude. I would opt to kill my enemy than to be killed by them. Makes sense to me. Also good vs. evil, nothing wrong with that either. Radical muslim factions have sworn to wipe us out because they dont like capitolism and christianity. I view that as evil, and we as good. They declared a holy war on us so we will, in return, dust them. Dont pick of someone 10 times bigger than you, you will loose.
 
sdalton;

Each year, I think that next year we will get down to see Texas; I drove across somewhere in the panhandle east to west, but that was 1961------mostly at night :>)



I can't believe it CF; weren't you wanting to give the UN uninspectors MORE time to find the WMDs after they'd had years to find them?? Now when saddam had months of warning that we were comming in which to hide, transport to Syria etc, you expect our guys to find them while they are still getting shot at----give them a few weeks anyway after they get things settled down a bit. I expect, you think I am wrong; read this msg back to me in six weeks!! :>)



Any of you catch Monsoor Ijaz on O'Rielly last night?

He, together with a British Newspaper reporter, really laid out the connection between saddam and ben laden. They turned up copies of documents setting out the meetings, etc such as what saddam would pay for in terms of expenses of the meeting etc.



Ijaz allso laid out again the facts concerning clintons failure to accept the Saddanese offers to deliver ben laden. And remember this guy was a staunch clinton supporter, (gave clinton $250K, with the white house access that went with that kind of contribution) untill he saw the way clinton was dealing with the terror issue. Ijaz was the go connection between clinton and the Suddan officials, he delivered the offers directly to the white house and was amazed when the clinton crowd refused the offers.

He, on this instance and another time, I saw him actually showed some of the communications relating to that screw up. The FBI was really trying to get ben laden but clinton and his inner circle--maddie halfbright and sandy berger rejected the offer because it might up set the "arab street"

Had clinton for once actually tried to get the #%$@& then, 9-11 might never have happened.



BUT, he was too busy taking credit for the good economic times produced by the Ragan administration. Now, GWB's problem is to deal with the economic mess CREATED by the clinton goof ups.

The economic times of the country most often lag well behind the policies (as contrasted with EVENTS such as 9-11, wars, etc) that set them in motion------yes, folks, clintons good economic period was very much in spite of, not due to clintons policys; they were due to the policys of the Regan years. Even if Bush's policys were absolutly perfect, it would take several years to stop the slide that started before he got into office.



Some way, I fear that CF and illflem won't agree with quite everything in this post :>)



Vaughn
 
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