problem with my TAG

[SKargo]

I'll never use one. My mind is made up.

 

[BKilbury]

Wow !!! tks for the heads up on this, I read your post and went out tonight to investigate... ... low and behold mine too had been side ways in the intake tube. Upon close investigation you can see ever so small nicks in the edge (not to your extent) This makes me nervous and i'm leaving mine out, even tho it did have some benifits, can't justify crashing the turbo or worse. Seems more testing / R&D sould have been done on this product.

tks again for sharing this, I was one of those group buy guys.

Bryan

 

[funkra]

Good info fellas... thanks. You've all made it pretty obvious that a TAGs clearly not worth the risk.

 

[Boondocker]

contaminated crime scene

I ask this question of BKilbury as I ask it of myself. How do you know your TAG "has been in sideways"? That is to say, how do you know that it didn't just turn as you were pulling the hose off to check? There's really no way to tell once the hose is installed. It's sort of like opening the soda bottle to see if there's any fiz. Well, there was until you let it out.



I've pulled my intake hose off a number of times and found the TAG exactly the way I installed it. There is one glaring exception, and I can't substantiate that I didn't turn it while wrestling the hose or had it installed correctly in the first place.



I think the air guide concept is good, it's just that the design of the device leaves room for the possibility of it to become misaligned. What is needed is a longer tube. Oh wait! That would be the TAG II.



It's time for the players to raise or fold and time for the peanut gallery to just keep doing what they do best.

 

[DBrickel]

Has anybody tried to pin the TAG in the tube with a couple of small screws to hold it in place? Seems like an obvious solution

 

[midlife crisis]

So using that logic, would it be possible that your tag WAS in sideways, and YOU corrected it when you took the hose off? Now your right, you dont know what took place before you "contaminated the crime scene". I think we can agree there is alot at stake considering all these installation issues. ( I am not flaming the design/concept). Now, call me Kenny Rogers, cause I am foldin.

 

[BKilbury]

Boondocker, given that i was cautious when i went to look for this problem and the fact that the sleve or rim of the TAG is very narrow is enough for me... plenty of potential for dislodging while in operation. Also i noted small nicks present in the same rim/sleve area as the original post. I doubt that dislodging this while installing or demounting would have caused this. No p-nut gallery here... . decades of fleet maint mngmnt tho

rgds, bryan

 

[Tom W]

Are you guys sure you are installing the TAG properly? Making sure it is in the slot in the intake tube. I won't say it can't happen but mine seems pretty secure. Do you still have the silencer ring?



Tom

 

[Boondocker]

a nick in time

BKilbury, I failed to consider the nicks in your TAG. That would indicate that it was dislodged prior to removal. Since I have no damage on mine, I won't rule out that possibility in my case.



For the two of you who reported damage, it is certain that the TAG was mispositioned, by whatever circumstance. I have to wonder, was there any indication of a problem? Any grinding sounds, odd sounds, reversal of potential TAG performance?



This last thought is the one that bothers me the most. If there is a genuine performance advantage, even slight, with a correctly positioned TAG, then surely there would be some performance degradation with it incorrectly positioned. Given the blind test, it seems that neither is noticeable.



As for proper installation. I questioned myself on this, which is why I checked the instructions again. I would say that the proper fit is snug, but just so.



I looked at the additional hose clamp and screws ideas, but neither of those would solidify the mounting without the drawbacks of possibly warping those hose or simply putting holes in it, which can't be good in the long run.



I carefully removed my hose again tonight, it's been two weeks and 500 miles since I last checked. The TAG appeared to be positioned correctly. The chances of knocking it into place as opposed to out of place are quite slim by comparison. That's reason, not logic.



Regards,

Neil

 

[midlife crisis]

Boondocker, with all due respect, I was trying to make the observation based on your reasoning or logic ( whatever you want to call it), that no one knows what took place here. For anyone to conduct any failure analysis without actually looking at the parts and getting accurate info is shooting from the hip at best. Your peanut gallery reference is exactly the kind of thing that makes me regret spending 35$ to be a member of this site. If someone has a different opinion, has a bad or different experience, or simply doesnt get the warm & fuzzies regarding a product on this site-are they now labeled and put in a different group? If that is indeed the case, please let me know.

 

[Sticks]

TAG - Good idea, bad application.



Redesign the TAG so that it is a one piece unit that is like a hose coupler. Male on one end to attach the OEM intake hose, Female on the other end to attach to the turbo. Then all we have to do is see if it will hold up to years of high volume air moving through it, and the occasional "bark".



Put me on the wait -n- see list for a while longer...



EDIT - Oh yeah, lower the price about $20 or $30

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by sticks

TAG - Good idea, bad application.



Redesign the TAG so that it is a one piece unit that is like a hose coupler. Male on one end to attach the OEM intake hose, Female on the other end to attach to the turbo. Then all we have to do is see if it will hold up to years of high volume air moving through it, and the occasional "bark".



Put me on the wait -n- see list for a while longer...



EDIT - Oh yeah, lower the price about $20 or $30

TAG - Good idea, bad application.





Well put, good concept, crappy product. All I want in front of my turbo is cool dense air and as much of it as possible!

 

[Boondocker]

Midlife crisis, First, the peanut gallery reference was deragatory and not my usual style. My writing style is a bit colorful because I like to amuse myself, but never intentionaly at anyone else's expense.

Second, yes I was making a distinction between two groups, TAG owners and non-TAG owners, more to the point, those who have something at stake on this subject and those who don't.

You and I are both in the group who has something at stake. You've decided to remove yours and respect your taking a stand. I too may have to admit that I made $115 mistake and the incidents brought to light in this thread may yet convince me to remove mine because of the potential for engine damage.

In my enthusiasm to help or explore the issue I might quick-draw a conclusion. The $35 I spend on TDR is the best money ever spent on my truck hobby. As a participant in this open forum, I'll just have to put up with those who delight in witty insults based on the TAG acronym or sit in the aformentioned gallery and shout I-told-you-so's. What irks me is making a mistake, whether it's buying a product that turns out to be not a good value or overlooking a clue in someone's explanation of a problem.



I appreciate DBrickel's offer of a solution to stake it with screws. I don't like the idea enough to try it, but welcome the positive contribution to the discussion. I hope the clamp around the boot that GFrance is going to try works. The cheap screw type hose clamps I have on hand aren't up to the task.

Sticks looks at things from an engineering perspective and I think he's right-on in this case. I have researched airflow straighteners and it's a proven concept. I now understand that the TAG product is not properly designed for the CTD application, the TAG II might be better.



I asked some questions of those who had the problem, basically - could you tell something was wrong? No direct replies to this yet. I took mine out a couple of weeks ago, for a few days, to see if I could tell the difference. I think the engine runs smoother with it in, but the difference is subtle. How subtle? If someone sneeked under my hood and stole my TAG, I honestly don't think I'd notice.

That might been damning testimony to some, but I think the performance analogy is somewhat closer to that of synthetic oils. Can you tell the synthetic oil difference on a test drive, I doubt it. Can you realize a performance or cost improvement based on regular analysis over many thousands of miles? Probably.



My little saga on this subject is not over. I have a hard time giving up when I think there's a chance to make it right. But I might give up and may those in the gallery have a field day!



Neil

P. S. I checked my Don Rickles big book of insults and found peanut gallery in the kiddie section I gotta work on my insults

 

[RustyJC]

Actually, one solution is pretty simple. Note that the air intake boot slides over the turbo compressor housing. This leaves a "lip" of the turbo compressor housing sitting inside the boot - the "lip" being the front face of the compressor housing inlet. If one removes the boot and measures from the end of the boot to the mounting flange of the TAG, then subtracts the measurement on the compressor housing from the "lip" to the machined face against which the end of the air intake boot fits, one has the "free distance" between the lip and the TAG mounting flange. A sleeve that is made to a length equal to this free distance with an OD to fit inside the hose and an ID large enough to fit over the TAG honeycomb would locate the TAG and prevent it from shifting toward the turbo inlet. Made to the right ID, it could also remove this "lip" from the inlet air path between the TAG and turbo inlet housing, which could offer some benefit in terms of clean airflow.



I'll be checking my TAG when I remove the BHAF and air intake boot to change the oil & filter this weekend. Maybe I have some PVC that I can tinker with - now, if I only had a lathe!!



Rusty

 

[GFrance]

Boondocker

Thinking back when I was towing my 5vr back from K-Falls truck pulls I thru an over boost code comming over the pass. I didn't think much about it at the time. Had a little engine stumble, that was my Banks Automind defueling do to high egt's. I know Im at the limit of my little hy35 turbo & need a bigger one. It may have been at that point when the turbo huffed back thru my Scotty II that the TAG got sideways. This truck isn't my daily driver. So it was six weeks later before I made another trip with the truck. I did a 860 mile round trip to a bomb party without my 5vr & didn't notice a difference, for the tag only made a difference that I could notce when towing. When I got home from that trip it was time to service my truck & that was when i found the Tag sideways with the nicks in it.

 

[HEMI®Dart]

I Installed the TAG into the intake tube as per the directions, then I put a 4" hose clamp over the hose to hold the TAG in place. Seems to work nice.

 

[Boondocker]

GFrance, thanks for the report. Still it's disconcerting that it's hard to tell if things are right in there.



Following along RustJC's idea, it's been suggested that a piece of 4" exhaust pipe can be used to support the neck of a BHAF. I wonder how close this would be to work for supporting the TAG? If only I had a piece of pipe and a decent hose clamp. I may have to pay a visit to my friendly custom muffler shop and have them slice off various lengths of leftover pipe, sort of a kit.

 

[GFrance]

Originally posted by Boondocker

GFrance, thanks for the report. Still it's disconcerting that it's hard to tell if things are right in there.



Following along RustJC's idea, it's been suggested that a piece of 4" exhaust pipe can be used to support the neck of a BHAF. I wonder how close this would be to work for supporting the TAG? If only I had a piece of pipe and a decent hose clamp. I may have to pay a visit to my friendly custom muffler shop and have them slice off various lengths of leftover pipe, sort of a kit.

Yea that might work. I think for now when Dave sends me another Tag he is including a clamp & I'll give that a try.

 

[Matt400]

Originally posted by GFrance

I found a few flakes of aluminum in the air cleaner the rest more than likely went out the tail pipe

Ouch... out the tail pipe sounds so painless until you consider the path in between

 

[darkhorse]

I put my TAG in about 5 months ago. . It's remained in place just fine. Did it do anything? Absolutly! I measured about 1 mpg increase. Not a lot but true but definatly something. Seat of the pants impressions are subtile but it seems to spool faster on the low end. After reading all this controversy I think I'll go out in the morning to check it position but a couple of weeks ago when I put an AFE in my stock filter box, I checked it & found it in place.