Protecting the soft underbelly off-road - 2014 3500

[VicR]

Hi all - was under the 2014 the other day and trying to decide what looks the most vulnerable. I'm not trying to turn this into a rock-crawler, but we like to get off the beaten path in Death Valley and around the Sierras to some favorite fishing holes- I figure White Rim Trail is a likely trip too. Most of these trips will be taken with the camper in the photo. Nothing crazy - what would be referred to as class 2 or light class 3.

• Class II - Road might have a high center, or an occasional rock sticking up, either of which could cause problems for ordinary passenger cars. Possibly able to be negotiated by a skilled driver operating a low-slung automobile, however two-wheel drive vehicles with higher ground clearance than most passenger cars is higly suggested. Four-wheel drive and dual range gears are not needed.
• Class III - Possibly very rocky, very sandy, or very steep. Four-wheel drive may be required. A transfer case with low range gears and locking axles is not needed. Unless they are excessively wide, most off-the-shelf SUVs and pickups, even with novice drivers, should be able to handle this road without any vehicle damage.

So starting with the lowest points first, given the width I figure I may have to compromise on lines and approaches occasionally. Starting with the lowest point first, it seems like the front diff is going to take the brunt of things - was thinking about a stronger front diff cover - like this:

https://secure.aev-conversions.com/shop/vehicle/ram/ram-front-differential-cover

Now that its not my daily driver, the steps will be going, and replaced with a set of wheel to wheel rock rails. Subject of a future thread as I figure out how to adapt the frame mount camper tie-downs or go to something different.

So aside from those two obvious ones, what have you seen as potential trouble spots underneath? I know I can't protect everything 100% ...and I don't want the weight penalty of going overboard. Thx - Vic

 

[Bob4x4]

The first thing I would do is a better suspension and a minimum tire size of 35”.The pizza cutter tires with 10klbs will not be happy on any soft surface.The extra 2” of ground clearance will allow you to travel where you want on the majority of desert roads with a much better chance of no damage.The camper will take less of a beating extending its useful life.I spent many thousands of miles off road with a four wheel pop up camper when the kids were still living at home.Tires and suspension made it very enjoyable for all of us

 

[Bob4x4]

The first thing I would do is a better suspension and a minimum tire size of 35”.The pizza cutter tires with 10klbs will not be happy on any soft surface.The extra 2” of ground clearance will allow you to travel where you want on the majority of desert roads with a much better chance of no damage.The camper will take less of a beating extending its useful life.I spent many thousands of miles off road with a four wheel pop up camper when the kids were still living at home.Tires and suspension made it very enjoyable for all of us

 

[Bob4x4]

On the front diff issue Carli suspension makes a guard that is stout enough to crush rocks,a cast cover will not be able to take a direct hit without damage

 

[VicR]

Bob - thanks - I thought about the Carli suspension approach - lifting things up out of the way is probably the safest approach. With the camper and all my gear for 3 people for a week, we do get close to GCVW so I need to research that a little more...and save my pennies.

Thx for the tip on the Carli diff guard - that looks like a better solution than the replacement cover I was eyeing for what I'm trying to accomplish.

-Vic

 

[MConyers]

• Class III - Possibly very rocky, very sandy, or very steep. Four-wheel drive may be required. A transfer case with low range gears and locking axles is not needed. Unless they are excessively wide, most off-the-shelf SUVs and pickups, even with novice drivers, should be able to handle this road without any vehicle damage.

Interesting, I don't have the camper; but, encounter some of that terrain about every spring during turkey season, mostly the very rocky and very steep in the Ozarks. Avoid sand and mud with these trucks at all costs unless you have the right tires! The previous suggestions look very good to me, I've previously only gone the transfer case guard route; the front diff guard seems like a good idea. The rear diff *will* hit rocks if you aren't watching your lines. For me, off road driving has been in the Ozarks, El Paso desert area and Indiana farm fields, mostly to get where I needed to go, not for the trail ride. Good tires and ground clearance have made all the difference in my experience, as big as an MT that will fit on the truck helps. The couple of times I didn't have the right tires, mud, involved a couple of ATVs pulling me out; other times a high lift jack and a shovel (high centered) was enough. With the heavy engine, these trucks need 4wd more than other vehicles might in mud and sand conditions.

 

[KPear]

The only options I've seen for Ram 2500/3500 skid plates are:
1) Adapting the Power Wagon skids to your truck. This involves some drilling of the frame as the PW has a special cross member to secure the fuel tank skid plate and some exhaust skid rails.
2) Getting Aluminum skid plates from this Israeli Company:http://www.asfir.com/product/search?filter_car_manufacturer=4&filter_car_model=30&filter_car_year=2015&filter_category_id=
3) Also, there is a new small shop making transmission skid plates for the Ram 2500/3500: https://dethloffmfg.com/shop/oil-transmission-skid-plate/ So far his products are for non-diesel trucks, but there is talk that he will make diesel versions as well.

Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of options out there.

 

[Bob4x4]

Neither of my 4wd rams have ever come close to needing a trans skid plate,they both have had the factory transfer case skids.The 2nd gen I built a new crossmember to raise it since the factory was too low.The fuel tank will be in jeopardy much sooner,the Def tank on the newer truck also.With a quality suspension such as the Carli and running a 35” tire there will not be any ROAD that would require skids.

 

[KPear]

MMm...disagree. There are plenty of unimproved roads where skids, while not absolutely necessary, do provide peace of mind for some of the more vulnerable components.

More than a few PW owners have commented on the vulnerability of the transmission pan for even mild offroading.

 

[Bob4x4]

MMm...disagree. There are plenty of unimproved roads where skids, while not absolutely necessary, do provide peace of mind for some of the more vulnerable components.

More than a few PW owners have commented on the vulnerability of the transmission pan for even mild offroading.[/QUOTE

Perhaps those power wagon drivers need some lessons.Ive been off road just about every area in the southwest.That includes many rock crawling sections where you don’t see full size trucks.

 

[VicR]

Thanks all - appreciate the feedback. I am kind of surprised about the lack of options out there. I figured there would be more aftermarket demand for this area.

Been drooling over that Carli 3" recreational lift.

That proposed transmission skid looks like a work of art - hopefully they come out with a diesel version soon. I'm sending them a note to keep the interest up. Not sure about ordering parts like this form the middle-east from the other vendor...wish they had a local distributor.

-Vic

 

[endoscott]

Has anybody done the Carli 2.5" lift and Fox shocks? I like the picture of the CTD truck going 70mph on a dirt road in Ocotillo Wells, where we have been exploring recently.

 

[Bob4x4]

The Carli with the 2”fox shocks is a great start,but the speed off road will be limited by the small shock.If you are planning on doing 70 off-road you will want to step up to at least a 2.5 shock and trussing thr front diff housing

 

[endoscott]

I dont care about going that fast just want a more comfortable ride and better clearance. I can already see contemplating these mods is a slippery slope, pun intended.

 

[grabinov]

I just put on the Thuren kit with King 2” shocks and it makes a huge difference - I mean it’s a different truck. The Carli is supposed to be good too. Not sure you can go wrong with either. I will tell you this: My original plan was to use the Thuren “standard” shocks but they convinced me that I’d be happier with the Kings. Worth every penny. If you can get over the initial price, whichever spring manufacturer you choose, use the King shocks.

 

[endoscott]

OK, thanks, have you towed your 5th wheel since the mods? I am concerned about how it will affect the attitude of the truck for towing to lift the front 2 inches.

 

[grabinov]

OK, thanks, have you towed your 5th wheel since the mods? I am concerned about how it will affect the attitude of the truck for towing to lift the front 2 inches.

Hah. You got me! Actually I haven’t yet. BUT: I spoke to Thuren about the issue of both raising the front end and softening the springs (which is what these kits do - more, softer, smoother spring travel), and then towing my 5th wheel. First thing they reminded me of is that with a 5th wheel some portion of the load is actually on the front springs. With the new softer springs, the front will compress more than it used to also.

Second, what they recommended is that I “level” the truck by raising the front 2.5” AND the rear 1”. In fact, the truck is still a little rear-high. This height will go away my trailer on. What’s interesting is that the truck looks level now. I’m gonna say it will also look level with the trailer on. Even defining “level” is an interesting problem with these trucks, so there is some wiggle room.

Mine is also an air-spring rear axle 2500. With the coil spring 2500 they actually lower the rear 1” with their springs for a perfect “level” IF you don’t tow heavy (I know because my buddy just ordered that setup for his 2016 coil spring 2500. If you tow heavy, they put in their longer, softer rear spring.

I hope to get the trailer hooked up this week and I’ll send you a picture

 

[endoscott]

that sounds great! Did your suspension guy talk about how lift impacts track bar geometry and front driveline geometry both vertical and side shift? I tow my 5th wheel a lot, in fact it's the major use of the truck so I am just trying to think this through completely. Engineering is complicated. For every modification there may be unintended consequences. But I sure would like a little better suspension response when we do drive on dirt roads with no trailer.

 

[grabinov]

I was really concerned as well. Too much an engineer to have things not perfect. On Track Bar geometry: I replaced the factory track bar (with 46,000 miles it) with the Thuren Track Bar. That adjustable track bar came adjusted to exactly the right length for the springs they sell, so I didn't have to center the axle myself by adjusting and measuring. It centered itself when I installed the bar. From every measurement I have tried, the axle is centered exactly left to right, so I believe that their measurements are correct. As a track bar side note, I have heard from a number of sources (manufacturers and a reputable installer) that the factory track bar bushings are essentially worn out by 40,000 miles on any stock truck, and therefore that it makes sense to replace the track bar whether you want your axle perfectly centered or not. For me it made no difference as I wanted the axle perfect, but I can tell you that my factory track bar and bushings appeared fine (for what the appearance is worth), but I'm notoriously easy on my vehicles like many guys here. Nonetheless, I am happy I bought the bar, and was even more so when I discovered that it came pre-measured and correctly at that.

Once I installed everything I adjusted the factory drag link to get the steering wheel straight. That was when I discovered (about one week before the Recall came out!) that the jam-nuts on the adjuster barrel on the drag ling were loose - I mean barely hand tight. "Oh. How Convenient. I can adjust my drag ling without any tools. That can't possibly be good!" I guess I was not the only one with that problem. LOL...

In terms of geometry: Thuren recommends that the owner have the alignment done on the truck after the install. It has no effect on camber (it's a solid axle after all) but they recommend resetting the toe to essentially 0 and the caster to (from memory) I wanna say about 5 degrees. I haven't one mine yet, but here is what i've learned: the truck drives just fine with no adjustment at all. The wheel is straight and it does not pull or wander. It DOES feel slightly "lighter" on its feet, less stable but more lively. This makes sense given that lowering the solid axle away from the truck (raising the truck) essentially (given the suspension design we have) makes the steering angle steeper, which you would expect to feel that way. I'm going to have the alignment done just to see how much the change effects the feel. I think it will be a little (we're only talking about 1 to 2 degrees of caster change either way) more stable after the adjustment, but my feeling is that you could probably just drive it until you have a good reason to have it on the rack at a tire/alignment shop again somewhere own the road. By the way, and opposite of what one might at first think (I had to think about it for a minute), putting trailer weight on and lowering the rear of the truck would have the effect of decreasing the steering angle (tipping the steering knuckle back) again, putting the truck probably back where it was before the lift, or where recommended by Thuren with no weight. In other words, your truck will probably be slightly more stable in terms of geometry with the trailer on (just as it would have when stock). That's probably a good thing...

As you may guess, I'm SUPER sensitive to these little changes, so the above would probably not even be noticed by the average driver, but this is not a website populated by average drivers! That's for sure!

 

[grabinov]

Did we accidentally hijack this thread?

Gentlemen Moderators: Should we split it off starting with endoscott's question above?