Pulling with a 4500

[PLefever]

Can't take it anymore, placing an order for a CC 4500 laramie in the morning, trading off the POS 08 F450 I so mistakenly purchased. I saw mentioned that there is a speed limiter? dealer told me is was customer choice? any opinions are appreciated, I pull at the low end of 18k up to 30k. The Ford pulls great between dealerships and Tow Companies. My 98 260k dodge has never done that. They also seem to want to sell me the big alternator, is that needed for pulling a regular trailer?



thanks

 

[domehead]

It never hurts to have larger alternator, if you are going to run other items from your power system.



I have the big horn DRW crew cab and it pulls fine but I do have to down shift going up step grades to keep the rpm's up. The MPG is between 8-10 loaded and 14-16 empty, thats with 3:73 gears. Thats running at high speeds. If the trailer is loaded I keep it around 65 most of the time.

 

[HBarlow]

PLefever,

You might receive more and better responses if you post again in the cab and chassis forum.

All 4500s and 5500s previously had a 76 mph speed limiter due to the manufacturer's speed limits on the 19. 5" tires. I assume the speed limiter is still present on the '10 and '11 models. It was not previously a customer option, the programming could not be changed except with an aftermarket programmer.

For ordinary trailer towing you don't need the upgraded alternator and if you are a hotshotter and rolling lots of miles up on the new Dodge you might be safer to stick with the regular alternator because it will be easier and cheaper to repair or replace when you wear it out eventually because it is much more common than the higher capacity units.

Last time I looked at the Dodge Commercial website, Dodge offered two rear end choices for the 4500 but I don't remember now if the choices were 4. 10 and 4. 44 or 4. 44 and 4. 88. If you will tow 18,000 to 30,000 lbs. you may want to give some thought to ordering the lower differential gearing (higher numerical). It will cost a slight loss of fuel economy to have the power available with the lower gearing.

You didn't mention which is your choice, Aisin six speed automatic or manual six speed, but I enthusiastically recommend the Aisin six speed automatic. The one in my 3500 cab and chassis is great at 85,000 miles and came with a 180k mile warranty. I think the Aisins are proving to be very reliable.

I'm sorry but not surprised at your problems with a Furd 6. 4 V8 diesel. I don't think you'll have any problems whatsoever with the Cummins ISB6. 7 in a chassis cab.

 

[PLefever]

Planning on 4. 44 rear end and the Aisen Auto, one of the reasons besides poor quality on the ford is the restricted speed on the 4. 88 gears. I have removed the dpf and chipped it so you can bypass the speed limiter but you run out of rpm. I turn 2600 at 70. the new cc is only turning 2100 +/-, we have 75 mph speed limits out here and I pull at 70 or 72, but being unable to pass on a two lane empty is almost a joke. The truck will be hotshotting and pulling my living quarter horse trailer.



Thanks for the input, checked the 4500 forum but really nothing going on there.

 

[EGoodson]

I agree with H Barlow the aisin trans is the only way to go . I love my 08 3500 c&c I only wish I would have stepped up and got a 45 or 5500 for the extra weight capacity

 

[PLefever]

Anxious to talk to the dealership again, I found on the tire and wheel section on the dodge site it says you can order the truck with the speed limiter set at 55, 60, 65, or 70 somewhat implies that there isn't one? also looked up the tires and Continental rates them at 87mph, same as the ones on my POS, not too excited about having DEF but can't be any worse than being down 3 and 4 weeks at a time

 

[HBarlow]

Sounds like you are knowledgeable and know exactly what you want.

I agree with your choice of Aisin and 4. 44 gears. That truck should be very competent pulling the heavy trailers you described.

The '10 and '11 trucks may allow the dealer to set the speed limiter and if not, since you already have experience with aftermarket programmers, you can always set it to whatever you want if the tires will be speed rated for 87 mph.

I wouldn't feel too bad about the DEF. It's either buy DEF or pay to replace the DPF when it becomes full. EB, an oilfield hotshotter with an '07. 5 ISB6. 7 in a 3500 C&C had to replace his DPF at something like 200k miles. That's about the expected service life of a DPF from what we have read and they aren't cheap.

 

[RonD]

Just curious on what is causing your present F450 to ride around on tow trucks and live at the Ford Dealer service departments?, I have about 5 friends that own 6. 4 trucks, they all complain only about high fuel burn, not mechanical issues, I know the 6. 0 was a real problem.

 

[PLefever]

Honestly it is probably only half truck half dealers. multiple fuel line failures, no problems recently. DPF issues galore, finally took it off and used an edge race. bright side is mileage went from 5-6 pulling and 9-10 empty to 10-11 pulling and 16 empty with 4. 88 gears. This week it came out of the shop after nearly a month to fix the ac out of warranty 37,000 miles. it already had a condenser under warranty but ford didnt' care.

I bought the 450 because it was the only 2wd true crewcab diesel with a heavy chassis and tires. Chassis and brakes work well. down time kills me. Should elaborate that the compressor exploded and took out everything, not a cheap repair. Per Ford Corporate center "We do not currently have any interest in extending the warranty on this particular truck" they will however trade me cheap for a new one. Note that ford is so proud of their new creation that a commercial truck carries only 60k warranty.

I have had more problems and tow issues in 37k miles than two of my older dodges 97 12valve and 98. 5 24, both with over 250k pulling combined total. So as soon as the 4500 full crew cab came out I needed an excuse to convince my wife, the month in the shop did the trick. Can't pull much with her bug convertible. ha

 

[RonD]

I drove a 5500 a couple months ago, it is owned by a friend who uses it in his business, first have you driven one?, if not drive one before you buy one, there a real truck, not a pickup, second check with your insurance company, some people have issues with there insurance rates on a commercial truck, and the areas you travel, will the weight scales be a problem, your not a pickup anymore, with a flat bed you have to stop at truck scales in a lot of areas just some things to think about before you make that big purchase, best of luck on your decision.

 

[HBarlow]

He's a hotshotter, a commercial hauler. He already has $1M liability and is accustomed to DOT compliance. I'm sure a Furd F450 doesn't ride any better than an unloaded Ram 4500 and he's pulling a heavy flatbed all the time so either will ride pretty good.

 

[RonD]

I didn't see the Hot Shot part, but he has a 2008 with 37,000 miles, not much in the way of revenue miles in 3 years.

 

[PLefever]

Been down almost 90 days in the last year, tough way to go, Ron is correct though on the truck part, I drove a 4500 CC with a cm bed and was suprised how much more rigid the frame feels than the F450, suspension wise similar although my truck is usually carrying about 90 gal extra fuel and a dozen or so chains and binders so might be a bit heavier, ride quality was a little stiffer in the rear. I will be taking the aluminum bed off my 98 dodge cab and chassis and using it on the new truck so empty it may be a bit harsh, fortunately I rarely don't have a trailer of some sort.

Also good point on the insurance and DOT, seems as if they want to push you right into commercial rates on 4500's and up. I insure through Farm Bureau and have not checked yet, but probably should. Going to the dealer this morning to get the real answer on speed limiter the old fashioned way, test drive and throttle!

 

[PLefever]

Speed tested the 4500 Crew Cab, Aisin with 4. 44 gears. Topped at an indicated 88mph, turning give or take 2650rpm

 

[BurlesonR]

How harsh was the empty ride?

 

[PLefever]

The truck I tested had a CM bed installed, not sure what they weigh, ride was comparable to my F450, tiny bit harsh, but I'm used to it, even my straight 1 tons I have added extra leafs. Probably not a good daily driver. The truck is slow as snot, cruised nicely but acceleration is nothing like my ford, of course the ford is chipped and has 4. 88 gears. Truck also wandered quite a bit, my F450 did also when the tires were new, so I would imagine they will square up a bit, but drives like it doesn't have enough toe.

 

[BurlesonR]

Hmm, that's interesting.

After I ordered my '11 3500 pick-up, I was a little disappointed that I didn't at least test drive a 4500 or 5500. A few '11's came in on the lot about a month ago and I was checking them out. When I saw the huge brakes and bigger rear axle I was even more disapointed... I didn't originally look into them because of the stiffer spring pack and speed limiter, but from all the negatives you described, I'm glad I got the pick-up...



Thanks for elaborating on your test drive.