Pump Timing..is Piers Wrong?

[BCFAST]

Pump Timing..is Joe D. Wrong?

Talked with an old, established Bosch pump place here in S. FL this afternoon... their work is largely marine, simply because of where we are... am wanting to get my timing changed... anyway, the service manager was explaining to me that to PROPERLY set timing, the pump should come off the motor! Adjusting from TDC with the unit on the engine, is just taking a best-guess. Anyone care to comment? Also, so I know if he's in the ballpark, how much did you spend to have your timing done, pump on or pump off? Many thanks.

 

[sewman]

Well I'll tell you one thing Piers would never steer you wrong

If you've ever worked on a gas motor you knpw you don't take the distributor out to time the engine,thats what the inj pump is to a Diesel, you must find TDC then time the pump accordingly

using TDC as a reference how ask your service manager how they can do it.

I hope you don't take your truck to this place as I have a feeling he's probably working on commission & trying to rack up some serious service charges.

 

[R.ebel]

Timing

I'd find a different shop to set your timing! Sounds like these guys want to take you for a ride.



The pump IS NOT REMOVED to set the timing. The engine must be postioned at TDC on number one cyclinder (there are several ways of doing so... don't rely on the timing pin in the injector pump they are known to be off) The gear on the front of the pump is then pressed off the pump shaft, then the correct amount of plunger lift for the application is set on the pump and the gear is re-installed.



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[BCFAST]

Thanks guys... I couldnt believe that Piers and Joe D. wouldnt know the best way. Well, Im back to square one... I found a wonderful local shop; but they are a Cummins authorized shop, and cant do anything that isnt stock, as per Cummins demand! This sucks... I cant find a shop!

 

[BigYellowIron]

buy the tool kit from snap-on and do it your self!!

i bought my kit and set the timming in about an hour.

simple to do. with the right tools.



e-mail me if you would like to talk in more depth.



Adam

 

[Joe G.]

Adam,



I did the same thing, only I got my timing kit from Miller Tools. The cost of the kit is about the same as you pay to have it done. Maybe a little more. Now that I have the kit I can reset the timing any time I want with no additional expense. Or I can experiment if I want. I plan to keep the Green Monster for quite a while so this kit is a valuable addition to my tool collection.

 

[BigYellowIron]

the snapon kit is around 200 less the barring tool.



I personally have no use for the barring tool, it is just easier and faster to turn the engine over on the ballancer with a socket



That is why i chose snapon. i think that miller was like 50 bucks more than snapon, but the barring tool is additional 50 bucks.



go figure



if you have any mechanical capability i would recomend doing it your self and buying or borrowing the tool kit to use.



just my thoughts



Adam

 

[Cooker]

FWIW Cummins Michigan will set my timing for $85. I didn't think this was too bad.



-Ryan

 

[Joe G.]

$238 including the barring tool for the Miller kit. I like the barring tool since it holds the engine so I can torque up things. It will make installing the transmission a lot easier the next time I have to take it out for anything. I'm keeping the Green Monster for a long time so I will have to do that again some day. Not really needed to do the timing job, but it's easier. Same thing for valve adjustments. In any case, it's a lot better to have a timing tool kit with or without the barring tool and do the job yourself.



Ryan, most Cummins shops will only set the timing to what is on the data plate.

 

[JGK]

Just a word of advice. I watched a guy redo the timing on a truck about 3 times the other day (he was fast, only took him about 20 minutes each time). The problem was, once he pulled the gear off the first time, a little oil got on the shaft. When they drove it around the block to test it and got on it, the timing slipped. He couldn't torque it tight enough. Lesson learned: you gotta clean the shaft and the gear of all oil before replacing. That's real tough through the little opening in the case.



That may be why the guy said you have to take the pump off. There's got to be a better way. When the diesel shop put mine back on after bench testing/tuning it, the tech made 4 little marks on the shaft with a stick of chaulk - presumably to add a little gripping "grit".



Jay

 

[Cooker]

Joe G.



I thought they wouldn't want to advance timing either, but after talking with them they said they will advance up to 2* from what is stamped on the plate. This would bring me up to 15* and I think this is about where I want to be.



The guys here at Cummins Michigan in Grand Rapids have always been good to deal with.



Thanks,

Ryan

 

[Smoker]

JGK,

You can clean the shaft using brake parts cleaner that comes in a spray can. For a little extra protection, I took 80 grit sandpaper and lightly sanded the shaft and gear. I bent the puller bolts when I tried to take it back off again. My gear is on there tight and it ain't gonna slip.

 

[SteveH]

Since you have a 97 with the mechanical injector pump, you can take the Cummins Dealer and have them "spill port time" it. This is supposed to be the most accurate way to time it anyway, not having to worry about the dial calipers, etc. Mine cost under $50 to have it done.

 

[DieselB59]

First off, the only puller worth its weight is the one that comes in the Snap On SP500 Diesel timing kit. All others just can't pull their weight, no pun intended. Secondly, in a press fit assembly, oil continues to drain out of the shaft area of the pump into the timing case, by design. You have to use brake cleaner in two or three different sweeps around the shaft with the gear pulled free of it. Even then you'll only be able to get half of the shaft clean, but that will hold it. And no way ever should you pull the pump unless you're putting on a better one in its place.