Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) pumps, lines & whatnot

[Hohn]

Here was my reply from Aeromotive on the lowered voltage to their pump:



Though you can reduce voltage to the pump, it should be done with PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) technology, in order to be friendly to the pump motor and maintain longevity. This can get rather sophisticated. Our FPSC P/N 16302 will reduce the fuel pump’ voltage by 20% when activated, using PWM, but it requires an RPM reference to increase to full voltage. I’m not sure how you would obtain this reference, common on a gasoline engine with ignition system, on the diesel engine.

~~~~~



Sounds like I should just pump a bunch and return it to the tank. I'm not inclined to spend the $$ on their fancy controller.



jlh

 

[rweis]

Just got back from a week in the Smokey's pulling the 13k 5er.



Going up hill, at WOT for maybe 30 minutes only regulating the go pedal according to 1250*, steady 12psi out of the lp, steady 10 - 12 psi into the VP.



Comp on 1 x 5 (no VP wire)



I think this was a true test of continuous WOT for an extended period of hard pulling. Some grades as steep as 9%. In MY configuration the lp could supply everything the VP needed and consistantly.



I did get a bad load of fuel (lots of water). I checked the RACOR daily just in case I did. One morning the RACOR was about 1/2 full of water, drained out about 1 pint of water. Stopped for lunch at noon and drained another pint. Stopped mid afternoon and drained another 1/2 pint. That night drained another 1/2 pint.



The RACOR REALLY did its job!



Next day mid morning water check was only about a couple of ounces. Noon drain was only about 1/2 ounce.



NO POWER LOSS at any time! Even under WOT.



Only have 37k on the system, but very very happy with it.



Bob Weis

 

[JTruelove]

Are you running a pusher pump on your dodge? If so, where did you purchase it?



Thanks

 

[darkhorse]

Bob, that sounds like great performance on a stock LP as a pusher. What size are the lines on the AN-6 fittings? ... Got any photos of the insalled pump?

 

[rweis]

darkhorse,



Just plain AN-6 line on AN-6 fittings. I do use full flow fittings like Aeroquip or equivalent. I have 43k on the system now and the psi is consistant.



I just used a piece of angle 3" on one side and 4" on the other side as a lp mount (the 4" side is perpendicular to the frame so the lp with wire connector will fit).



I have a RACOR 690 right after the tank, then goes into the OEM lp (mounted on the frame by the tank), then goes into a Mallory 4307M bypass regulator and that is set @ 12 psi with the bypass going back to the tank, then it heads up to the OEM ff where there is a psi gauge fitting before the ff, then out of the ff to a psi gauge fitting then to the VP.



I Stanadyne Performance every tank or partial tank.



I change the RACOR once a year.



I change the OEM ff once a year.



The fuel system runs flawlessly, and has self protected itself from bad fuel (major water in fuel) 2 times in the past year.



Works for me.



I have not taken the digital camera plunge yet, but probably ought to get some pics taken of it.



Bob Weis

 

[darkhorse]

Thanks, Bob. It sounds good to me. I found a RACOR 690 with 12v heater for about $175. Now I need to source the AN-6 fittings & Mallory bipass valve. This set up is a lot less $$'s than the FASS or that beautiful but pricy RASS.

 

[rweis]

darkhorse,



"... source the AN-6 fittings & Mallory bipass valve... " I use Summitt Racing catalog.



I like Aeroquip vs Earls fittings because the Aeroquip nipple part of the actual connector has a smaller angle of incidence ramp than the Earls.



Whatever fittings you like. You could even use barbed fittings and hose clamps. That would keep the cost down significantly.



One of the key pieces IF you use a lot of AN-6 fittings is the ... . Russell -6 AN female swivel to 3/8" aluminum line part # RUS-639200 because you are going to cut the steel fuel line after it comes out of the tank and comes down by the frame. However you could just as well use a 3/8" fuel line and hose clamp there.



I used fittings and ss braided line which is overkill, but that is how I wanted to do it. It would work just as well just using 3/8 fuel line and a bunch of hose clamps and push on barbed nipple fittings from Home Depot.



I mounted my RACOR in the bed pocket back in back of the driver's side. To protect it I mounted it on a 1/4" steel plate slab about 8" wide and as I remember about 19" long that is screwed into the bed stiffener at the top and a runningboard support bracket at the bottom. I use a 10 micron 690 filter. I figure if the OEM ff is 10 micron, then why not the entire system cleaned to 10 micron. Then when it gets to the OEM ff it has already been cleaned once and has a good chance of REALLY being 10 micron clean as it goes to the VP.



My only comment about the next item, the lp bracket is make sure you allow enough room for the wire connector to the lp so you can unplug it and clean it if you need to. I suggest you put a GOOD coating of dielectric grease in that connector.



Then the next item is the Mallory bypass regulator. The point here is to keep the **** OEM lp check valve closed. The OEM lp check valve seems to be a major point of failure so the bypass regulator will be set so it NEVER has a chance to open and/or screw up. The check valve opens at 14 psi, so I set my bypass regulator at 12 psi. When you first set the system up the bypass regulator comes set at 3 psi. When I first cranked the truck up I scrambled to increase the setting to at least 9+ as I did not know it came set at 3 psi.



I have not hooked up the boost port on the Mallory 4307M, but some TDR guys that use a Aeromotive bypass regulator say it smooths out the minor bypass valve fluxuations. I may do that and see how it goes, but did not do that initially.



I bypassed the Mallory 4307M back to the tank burp line. What ever is bypassed is just filtered again as it re enters the system. I think I am constantly recirculating fuel back to the tank and therefore constantly refiltering fuel.



There was someone on TDR that bypassed their regulator back to one of the tank input ports of the RACOR 690. Another idea.



Summitt has the Mallory 4307M in the catalog.



Then it goes on to the OEM ff etc.



I have a fp sensor prior to the OEM ff and one after.



I think I used a 45* going into the OEM ff canister top, 120* comming out of the OEM ff cannister bottom, 90* going into the VP head. I think the rest of them were straight. It is whatever and however you have space and do yours.



Good luck, and if you have any questions please post, or call me cell 863. 206. 3464 and I will be glad to offer ideas.



Bob Weis

 

[darkhorse]

Thanks, Bob. It looks like it's parts shopping time again.

 

[rweis]

Summitt racing does a good online catalog. www.summitt.com



The input/output to the lp, ff, VP are metric.



Bob Weis

 

[rweis]

I thought I would put the following observation here:



When doing my weekly dump of minor water dropplets from the RACOR 690 there were also 3 pieces of plastic in the sediment. The plastic was black, curley, very thin, about 1/4" long like you would get if you carved a very thin piece of plastic off of a plastic block with a knife.



I have no idea where they came from, but do know the pieces were way to big to go through the lp filter screen.



I do not remember if the lp check valve is before the lp filter screen or not, but these pieces definitely would screw up the check valve.



The RACOR 690 caught them no problem, and they definitely would not go through the lp filter screen or the OEM ff.



Just an observation FWIW,



Bob Weis



I also thought it might be good to bring this thread TTT as it has been a while.

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"I do not remember if the lp check valve is before the lp filter screen or not, but these pieces definitely would screw up the check valve. "





Bob, here's a pic of the pump internals, showing the relationship between the inlet/outlet ports and the internal bypass valve...





#ad

 

[OTRPU]

Just an interested bystander, but for those considering drawing fuel from the bottom of the tank I suggest use caution. My experience with a steel auxillary bed tank bottom gravity fed to the OEM filler then the OEM tank has been lots of rust in the system. Have a pressure guage on the output side of the fuel filter, mine will plug a new filter in less than a thousand miles. If I don't replace the bed tank I'll throw it's own filter inline before it gets to the OEM tank. Rust and/or water will both end up on the bottom of the tank, if you draw from the bottom seems it might be worth further consideration. May actually be counter to what you're trying to achieve. Comments requested. Just hangin out at the Warrenton, MO Flying J, working my way back to Dave's Diesel, Angola, IN . Trying to fugure out how to get all the clean fuel I need.



Cheers,

Steve J

 

[rweis]

I put a RACOR 690 right after the tank pickup, and it has caught a ton of water and debris. I got a wet load of fuel once and it stripped the water right out. I had to dump the sediment bowl often, but zero damage to the fuel / engine system. I drain sediment (and a small droplet of water normally) about once a week. I can't tell you how happy I have been with the RACOR catching "stuff" before it goes through any of the fuel system / pumps.



Tis what I would put in the fuel system right as it comes out of the tank before the fuel goes through ANYTHING else.



Works for me



Bob Weis

 

[JR2]

Just figured it was time to bump this back to the top. It has lots of good info in it for our new guys.



JR2

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

Might help if a bit of a summary was presented, condensing this thread and conclusions provided by testing done WAYYYyyy back near the top of the thread.



I suppose different folks focused upon different aspects - but what *I* got out of this thread, is the futility of various larger-than-stock fuel lines and expensive fittings installed as "tools" to get better performance, or improved fuel flow that some previously thought was an absolute MUST.



Seems enough proof was preseneted, based upon good test equipment and methods, to show the dead-stock DC fuel system, in decent operating condition, will provide ALL the fuel the engine is capable of using, even after significant power adding mods are installed.



Running up the "mod bill" by addition of fancy lines and fittings might make you feel warm and fuzzy all over - but the engine won't likely even know the difference...



At least that's MY take!

 

[csutton7]

pump--I did change out my original aeromotive pump after 2. 5 yrs, as I thought it was giving up the ghost--turned out to be a loose screw--but I went ahead and put a new pump on anyway---



bigger lines are totally up to the owner--although if your new pump demands larger sizes then I'd do it--



using OEM pump wire to trigger a relay to power your new relocated pump is a must I feel--



gravity feed is the best thing you could do for your electric pump if you have the guts to punch a hole in the bottom of your tank ---



use of a regulator and separate return line may be necessary--



again I'm sold on the Aeromotive log style pump and they now make one for diesel fuel and I'm 100% for true gravity fed---chris

 

[rubberneck]

Chris whats up man, long time no see. I have everything in the garage to convert over to the "red log" Just never got around to actually doing it, cause my carter pusher has been like the energizer bunny. (it will break tonight now that i said that LOL) Any way, i have decided to put a cam in anyway, so im going mechanical now. Red log going to get a new home on the injected v-dub.

 

[darkhorse]

Seems enough proof was preseneted, based upon good test equipment and methods, to show the dead-stock DC fuel system, in decent operating condition, will provide ALL the fuel the engine is capable of using, even after significant power adding mods are installed.



Running up the "mod bill" by addition of fancy lines and fittings might make you feel warm and fuzzy all over - but the engine won't likely even know the difference...



At least that's MY take! [/QUOTE]



My stock fuel system was running low on pressure especially at wide throttle. I could draw down the pressure from about 8 psi at cruise to about 1 psi near wide open. I ran "fancy" Aeroquip 6 & 8 lines & fittings from the lift pump outlet, forward. That was all I needed to keep 6-7 psi at WOT. Original lift pump still in service at 70k.

 

[csutton7]

rubberneck--not doing much but working and dreaming of the parts on the floor that need to go on the truck---but I'm getting tired of working on the truck and will probably wait to the last minute as always--hope things are going well for you--how's the house---chris

 

[Gary - K7GLD]

"My stock fuel system was running low on pressure especially at wide throttle. I could draw down the pressure from about 8 psi at cruise to about 1 psi near wide open. I ran "fancy" Aeroquip 6 & 8 lines & fittings from the lift pump outlet, forward. That was all I needed to keep 6-7 psi at WOT. Original lift pump still in service at 70k. "



NOT to start anything, or beat a dead horse - but I'd seriously suggest there may have been other issues with your "stock" setup that created your lower pressures - they seem to be well off of the numbers most other stock setups deliver under similar conditions, including my own in towing situations up Sierra grades for the short time it was still in stock condition...