maybe, just maybe---but if it can't be adjusted below 20psi, I agree with Big Saint that you should regulate it---2 year warranty is good... add says nothing about diesel, but they never do..... keep us posted on what you do for mounting and such and of course noise level and longevity... ..... chris
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Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) pumps, lines & whatnot
- Thread starter csutton7
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The 4100 is the same pump as the 4300 but internally regulated to 14 PSI. It ias internally by-passed so there should not be any problem with supplying to much fuel.
As I mentioned in my previous post they test all thier pumps with diesel and I spoke with the manufacturer and he said the 4100 would work in this application.
I also think since these pumps are 7 vane vice 5 vane they probably would not pulse as much giving a more stable pressure.
I will let you know how mine works out.
As I mentioned in my previous post they test all thier pumps with diesel and I spoke with the manufacturer and he said the 4100 would work in this application.
I also think since these pumps are 7 vane vice 5 vane they probably would not pulse as much giving a more stable pressure.
I will let you know how mine works out.
Has anyone considered a inline frame mounted pump? Walbro has some quality pumps. The fuel would actually traval through the pump motor itself via the brushes, armature etc. Would'nt this help pump life via better cooling? Would diesel have an adverse affect apposed to gasoline?
When I was in the service we had the two and 1/2 ton M-series trucks with intank electric transfer pumps feeding the Bosch inline pump. These were multifuel diesel engines and I never recall changing a transfer pump. What about a pump mounted in the tank?
When I was in the service we had the two and 1/2 ton M-series trucks with intank electric transfer pumps feeding the Bosch inline pump. These were multifuel diesel engines and I never recall changing a transfer pump. What about a pump mounted in the tank?
c-ball---an inank pump would be great and as of now I believe no one has tried one---you'd have to be a little creative in the wiring and in tank plumbing---also finding one that will work sitting in diesel could be interesting--unless you can get your hands on one of them military pumps---the Aeromotive pump is an inline pump fuel flows through it--I'm hoping this pump will last two years, but I've got 16 months to go so we will see-----
cscott---so the guy you talked to told you about the 4100 pump--wonder why it's not listed---anyway slap that bugger on and let's see what she can do and for how long---this is the first aftermarket pump that I've heard anyone say has been tested on diesel, that may work on our trucks, so that's encouraging----hope it works----chris
cscott---so the guy you talked to told you about the 4100 pump--wonder why it's not listed---anyway slap that bugger on and let's see what she can do and for how long---this is the first aftermarket pump that I've heard anyone say has been tested on diesel, that may work on our trucks, so that's encouraging----hope it works----chris
Bob Wagner
TDR MEMBER
for the new guys
Might as well bring this one back... 
Unlike the transmission threads though, this one didn't turn into a friggin' war.
Wow! What a lot to digest
This is a great thread. TTT for those of us who haven't read it ALL the way through.
I wanted to clarify something re: pressure vs flow. Some are saying that higher pressure= more flow. Other are saying that higher pressure= less flow. They seem to be arguing against each other.
Truth is, BOTH are true, and I am going to explain HOW this can be. First, we have to understand that pressure can be STATIC or DYNAMIC, while flow is ONLY DYNAMIC. If we have no motion (static) then we by definition have no flow.
If you have 35 psi in your tires, then pressure is static. If you are filling a tire with a nail in it, and the two cancel each other out to maintain 35psi in the tire, then this is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT case! Now you are dealing with DYNAMIC pressure.
Pressure cannot form without restriction, I. E. combustion pressure only builds when both intake and exhaust valves are closed.
That bears repeating:
***pressure cannot form without restriction***
This is because of the laws of physics. "nature abhors a vacuum". Pressure differentials ALWAYS tend to equalize themselves. You puncture a spray can, gases will escape until the pressure IN the can equals the pressure OUTSIDE the can.
Thus, the only way we can build pressure is with something to stop nature from taking its course- a container of some kind. This could be a cylinder or a line, a tank, anything that will seal.
[[The perfect analogy is electricity. Current (flow) is dynamic, while voltage (pressure) is static. If we have a simple circuit of a resistor and battery, we can measure the voltage drop ACROSS the resistor and find the current that is running through it. In other words, we can take a know pressure and a known restriction and calculate the FLOW going through it. Ever wonder why you can measure voltage (pressure) in parallel, but you HAVE to measure current (flow) in SERIES- that is, make it a part of the circuit?]]
Let's apply this to the VP44. When you step on the pedal, the fuel demand of the VP goes up (more fuel, more rpm, etc). Thus, the fuel in the line has some place to go, and the "restriction" to being pumped is less. Since we have to have restriction to have pressure, the less of one we have, the less of the other. So when the restriction at the VP goes down, the fuel pressure goes down as well. In this case, less restriction caused the outflow (of the fuel supply to the VP) to increase and therefore a pressure drop. Let's be clear on cause and effect: the lower restriction caused the higher flow and lower pressure. The lower pressure did NOT "cause" higher flow. The lower pressure was AN INDICATOR of higher flow.
On the other hand, an increase in pressure CAN cause an increase in flow ONLY IF THE RESTRICTION IS CONSTANT. If you have an orifice of fixed size, increasing the pressure will cause an increase in flow. This is because the pressures will try to equalize (as above) but the RATE that they will try to equalize is proportional to the pressure differential. It's also exponential-- you won't get double the flow by doubling the pressure-- you'll get a lot less than double the flow.
IN a nutshell, higher pressure can CAUSE higher flow, but lower pressure is AN INDICATOR of higher flow. These seem to be mutually exclusive, but they are apples and oranges, so one doesn't rule out the other.
So with this as a background, let's walk through the requirements of the "ideal" fuel system to the VP44:
1) Pressure would never exceed 14 psi (or whatever the pressure is of the internal bypass in the VP44 that sends fuel right back to the tank. This is easier on the VP, and more efficient because we aren't building pressure we don't need.
2) very high VOLUME. Ideally it would be large enough that we have minimal pressure variance as the VP varies it's fuel demand.
3) The largest fuel lines possible, especially before the pump. Why? We seek pressure stability, so having the largest volume of pressurized fuel gives us a large reservoir from which to draw. Thus, an increase in fuel demand has a smaller effect on the pressure level of the fuel. On the pre-pump side, the larger line means less restriction. Is it easier to drink through a McDonald's straw or a coffee stirrer?
4) Pump is close as possible to tank (and below the lowest fuel level). Since this, too, increases the volume of pressurized fuel (longer line from pump to filter) we have more stable fuel pressures. Not to mention the obvious about the pump preferring to push instead of suck. There's no need to put a bulkhead fitting on the bottom-- the stock design is fine, but maybe a larger line up to and including the fuel pickup would help a lot. Racers will also tell you to make sure your vent hole is large enough. You can starve your engine if it's too small.
Anyway, that's my input into this fray.
HOHN
This is a great thread. TTT for those of us who haven't read it ALL the way through.
I wanted to clarify something re: pressure vs flow. Some are saying that higher pressure= more flow. Other are saying that higher pressure= less flow. They seem to be arguing against each other.
Truth is, BOTH are true, and I am going to explain HOW this can be. First, we have to understand that pressure can be STATIC or DYNAMIC, while flow is ONLY DYNAMIC. If we have no motion (static) then we by definition have no flow.
If you have 35 psi in your tires, then pressure is static. If you are filling a tire with a nail in it, and the two cancel each other out to maintain 35psi in the tire, then this is a TOTALLY DIFFERENT case! Now you are dealing with DYNAMIC pressure.
Pressure cannot form without restriction, I. E. combustion pressure only builds when both intake and exhaust valves are closed.
That bears repeating:
***pressure cannot form without restriction***
This is because of the laws of physics. "nature abhors a vacuum". Pressure differentials ALWAYS tend to equalize themselves. You puncture a spray can, gases will escape until the pressure IN the can equals the pressure OUTSIDE the can.
Thus, the only way we can build pressure is with something to stop nature from taking its course- a container of some kind. This could be a cylinder or a line, a tank, anything that will seal.
[[The perfect analogy is electricity. Current (flow) is dynamic, while voltage (pressure) is static. If we have a simple circuit of a resistor and battery, we can measure the voltage drop ACROSS the resistor and find the current that is running through it. In other words, we can take a know pressure and a known restriction and calculate the FLOW going through it. Ever wonder why you can measure voltage (pressure) in parallel, but you HAVE to measure current (flow) in SERIES- that is, make it a part of the circuit?]]
Let's apply this to the VP44. When you step on the pedal, the fuel demand of the VP goes up (more fuel, more rpm, etc). Thus, the fuel in the line has some place to go, and the "restriction" to being pumped is less. Since we have to have restriction to have pressure, the less of one we have, the less of the other. So when the restriction at the VP goes down, the fuel pressure goes down as well. In this case, less restriction caused the outflow (of the fuel supply to the VP) to increase and therefore a pressure drop. Let's be clear on cause and effect: the lower restriction caused the higher flow and lower pressure. The lower pressure did NOT "cause" higher flow. The lower pressure was AN INDICATOR of higher flow.
On the other hand, an increase in pressure CAN cause an increase in flow ONLY IF THE RESTRICTION IS CONSTANT. If you have an orifice of fixed size, increasing the pressure will cause an increase in flow. This is because the pressures will try to equalize (as above) but the RATE that they will try to equalize is proportional to the pressure differential. It's also exponential-- you won't get double the flow by doubling the pressure-- you'll get a lot less than double the flow.
IN a nutshell, higher pressure can CAUSE higher flow, but lower pressure is AN INDICATOR of higher flow. These seem to be mutually exclusive, but they are apples and oranges, so one doesn't rule out the other.
So with this as a background, let's walk through the requirements of the "ideal" fuel system to the VP44:
1) Pressure would never exceed 14 psi (or whatever the pressure is of the internal bypass in the VP44 that sends fuel right back to the tank. This is easier on the VP, and more efficient because we aren't building pressure we don't need.
2) very high VOLUME. Ideally it would be large enough that we have minimal pressure variance as the VP varies it's fuel demand.
3) The largest fuel lines possible, especially before the pump. Why? We seek pressure stability, so having the largest volume of pressurized fuel gives us a large reservoir from which to draw. Thus, an increase in fuel demand has a smaller effect on the pressure level of the fuel. On the pre-pump side, the larger line means less restriction. Is it easier to drink through a McDonald's straw or a coffee stirrer?
4) Pump is close as possible to tank (and below the lowest fuel level). Since this, too, increases the volume of pressurized fuel (longer line from pump to filter) we have more stable fuel pressures. Not to mention the obvious about the pump preferring to push instead of suck. There's no need to put a bulkhead fitting on the bottom-- the stock design is fine, but maybe a larger line up to and including the fuel pickup would help a lot. Racers will also tell you to make sure your vent hole is large enough. You can starve your engine if it's too small.
Anyway, that's my input into this fray.
HOHN
Last edited:
To good of a read to let be forgotten
This is an excellent post full of a lot of hard work and great information.
How about an update?
CScott how’s the PE4100 working out for you?
Any problems?
Mopar-Muscle what pump did you finally settle on?
Any problems since?
Bill Did you give up on the Idea of a high-performance fuel system for high horsepower applications? I sure liked the input you gave on the stock system.
It would sure be nice to hear some longevity reports on some of these systems, plus and new developments.
This is an excellent post full of a lot of hard work and great information.
How about an update?
CScott how’s the PE4100 working out for you?
Any problems?
Mopar-Muscle what pump did you finally settle on?
Any problems since?
Bill Did you give up on the Idea of a high-performance fuel system for high horsepower applications? I sure liked the input you gave on the stock system.
It would sure be nice to hear some longevity reports on some of these systems, plus and new developments.
I installed my Aeromotive 1000 pump with 100% gravity flow(hole in bottom of tank) w/-10 lines to the prefilter & pump, then ran -08 to a Racor filter and -08 to a regulator, -08 fitting at the VP 44 and -08 as a separate return line back to the tank in July 2001 and and she's still pumping today at 17-18psi at idle and normal driving and she'll fall to 13/14psi at wide open throttleand then catch back up ---the only failure I've had is a plugged prefilter 2 weeks shy of 2 yrs-yes I haven't changed a thing in that period--I was testing the system to see what would go first---chris
Sometimes new members are unaware of the existance of some neat old "classic" threads - older members forget them and the info they provide - and we all start reinventing the wheel - so lets bring THIS one back to the top...
TTT - for some of the newcomers, and the never-ending focus to "improve" the 24 valve fuel system with lotsa new expensive stuff... 
Funny how things change. Of course now we are finding out that the PE pumps don't work after all and a few new products are hitting the scene. Most notibly the mechanical setup from DTT. Can't wait to get mine. And I suppose the FASS is working well right now but being electric I am not going to hold my breath. Wait till those get a few miles on them.
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Issue 128 – Digital Version
Digital Magazines
FREE!
TDR Test Drive - Digital Edition
Renew
Subscribe
Gift Subscriptions
Back Issues
Subscription Status
Address Change Form
Buyer's Guides
Ram Diagnostic Trouble Codes
The Perfect Collection
The Perfect Collection Vol. II
TSB Updates
Dodge/Cummins Historical Overview
Cameron Collection
What Makes Us Tick?
Product Showcase
Advertising
