Purchasing Advice

[mlewis73]

I'm a young 30-something who is looking into buying a new Ram 3500 for pulling the horses my wife and I have. Need some advice.



Unfortunately for our finances, the horses aren't going anywhere anytime soon...



SO... I have a choice to make: keep my '91 (which doesn't have the power I'd like and is advancing in age), buy used (which I've vowed not to do again due to past experiences having to repair used vehicles), or buy new.



I'm leaning toward buying new, but understand there's a $5000 hit the second the truck is driven off the lot.



We are lucky to be in a position where we can afford to make the payment on a new truck and continue modest investing/saving for retirement.



We have a 1 year old and a 4 year old. No more kids for about 5 years--wife is working on her college degree.



My thought is that if we buy new, we have a truck with a known history and full warranty for 3 years... with option to increase that with extended warranty. My plan would be to keep the truck 15 years... of course, that means we'd need a new one about the time that the kids are starting college...



Is there any reason this plan would NOT be the best decision? After a front end rebuild, a turbo, new tires, and a new transmission my '91 Ford is in great shape but lacks in power and I am a bit (very slightly) nervous about loading a 16 year old frame with a 10,000+ pound horse trailer. If I had it to do over again I'm not sure I'd have bought a used truck, and really have reservations about doing so now that I've learned how expensive a used truck can be. Maybe it makes sense to buy a 1-2 year old truck, used, but it seems to me that prices are so high and rebates/incentives are so good that it is better to spend a few thousand more and get full warranty and that new truck smell.



Thoughts? Just trying to make the best strategic plan before I spend the dough...





Mike

 

[EBottema]

That is a tough decision. I would say dump those horses. Horse bills are not fun... But since that is not an option then I would say keep your old truck for now. Possibly buy a used 2nd gen dodge. If you want more user friendly, go with the 24v and 12v if you like mechanical items that go forever.



Your ford has the 6. 9 liter turbo correct? That is a good motor and that is a very good truck. If you except the 3rd gen dodge to last 15 years and be reliable for that long, dont count on it. The truck will be great for 100k miles in warranty but with too many electronics, that truck will be costly after 10 years or many miles. The days of buying a vehicle and keeping it for 15 years is long past, too many things to break and unkeep is too high. Stick with your truck or get a 2nd gen... You can even mod your truck a little for more power...

 

[crobertson1]

Since nobody has seen a 15 year old third gen, I must respectfully doubt the validity of Erik's prognostication.



Vehicles are getting better and better with higher quality than ever, not worse. Yes, they are much more complex and the warranty is very valuable to me. I've heard it said that todays vehicles are "disposable" when the warranty is up, because a lot of people won't be able to afford repairs.



That said, since you can afford one, get a new one.

 

[Grizzly]

I'd go for a new 3500. My 05 is great, The 95 was great, but the 05 is better, roomier, quieter and much improved power. I can't see any reason why it won't last 15 years with a little TLC.

 

[TowPro]

There are some good used ones out there, you just got to look for them. I have a 2002 3500 duallly 2wd auto with 28K miles on it, and I am about to trade it in when my 06 comes in.

 

[Argus2k]

If you are really concerned about the “Hit” you take when you drive it off the lot then maybe you cannot afford a new vehicle. I don’t care if you buy a new truck or a new couch, if you have to sell it you’ll take a loss. I like new vehicles, I can afford them but maybe once every 6-7 years. The important thing is do not get upside down in it. Put enough down that if things change and you can’t afford the payments you can sell it and take the loss. I know too many that actually have to pay thousands to sell their car. A new 3500 is a big, and exciting purchase. Just make sure you will be as content 3 years down when your still writing that check. You are young with a young family. Personally I would only do it if I could keep my payments at about 10% of my gross monthly income, and I wasn’t in debt. (I don’t really consider a mortgage debt). The price of new vehicles has gone through the roof, but I think with the new electronics they are much more reliable then they used to be, and I think they will last 15 years with proper care and maintenance. Good luck, and if you buy new, shop smart, use the internet, and get a good deal. Don’t let salesmen get your emotions going, and be patient.

 

[mlewis73]

Thank you all for your thoughts on this. Still have not made a decision.



I do have a concern, though, with respect to dealers. I've talked to a couple dealers about new trucks. One says he can give me 3% under invoice, plus any rebates at time of order or at time of delivery, whichever is better. Another says he can give me invoice pricing, and only rebates that are in effect at delivery time. The second dealer says the first one can't go 3% under invoice because he'd be cutting into his holdback and wouldn't be able to pay his electric bill if he took a hit on holdback.



Is it reasonable to expect a dealer to go 3% below invoice and offer "whichever rebates are better at delivery" or is Dealer Number One just blowing smoke?



Thank you again... .

 

[Ol'TrailDog]

My two cents is carefully shop for a good used truck. There are plenty out there with the recent employee prices incentives.



http://www.clarkehoward.com/

 

[Grizzly]

Thank you all for your thoughts on this. Still have not made a decision.



I do have a concern, though, with respect to dealers. I've talked to a couple dealers about new trucks. One says he can give me 3% under invoice, plus any rebates at time of order or at time of delivery, whichever is better. Another says he can give me invoice pricing, and only rebates that are in effect at delivery time. The second dealer says the first one can't go 3% under invoice because he'd be cutting into his holdback and wouldn't be able to pay his electric bill if he took a hit on holdback.



Is it reasonable to expect a dealer to go 3% below invoice and offer "whichever rebates are better at delivery" or is Dealer Number One just blowing smoke?



Thank you again... .

Are you anywhere near Dave Smith's in Kellogg, Idaho? Even if you have to go 1000 miles the price is worth the while. And yes, Dealers can go below invoice without hurting them. They did for me in Albuquerque. I just told them that if I didn't get the price I wanted, I would go to Dave Smith's.

 

[DHorton]

mlewis, that is how I bought my first one. The first dealer wasn't lying to you, they just choose to make money on volume, than per sale. Most dealerships are either not in an area that make that feasable or they are just stuck in the old way of doing business. Let us know where you are from and we will point you to our favorite dealers.



David

 

[B.G. Smith]

Key word is payments. If you buy a 1 or 2 year old truck you will end up paying as much or more for it than you will for a comparable new truck and it's already used when you get it. Do the math. bg

 

[mlewis73]

Key word is payments. If you buy a 1 or 2 year old truck you will end up paying as much or more for it than you will for a comparable new truck and it's already used when you get it. Do the math. bg

That's been my experience, too. Well, my current truck was a bit older than 1-2 years... but still... Just the cost of 6 new tires puts a fellow almost in the same territory as a new truck would cost. I'm exaggerating, but for the $3,000 to $4,000 difference a truck that is 1-2 years old just doesn't seem like a good deal if it needs the slightest little thing done to it.

 

[Dl5treez]

I bought my Dodge brand new, and wouldn't do it again. Why? Two reasons really. First, the novelty of owning a new truck wears off the first time you scratch it, and no matter how hard you try not to, you will scratch it. Secondly, I see the financial hit you take on a brand new anything, and I'm too much of a money monger & not materialistic enough to need a brand new anything.



If you research and carefully select the used truck, you can end up with a whole lot of truck for not a whole lot of money.



Having a decent older pickup plus $15,000 in the bank is more satisfying to me than a brand new shiny truck.



But, that's JMHO.



Dan-

 

[CTait]

I can never see my self owning a new truck of any make that costs more than I owe on my house and the way new trucks are increasing will soon be more than I paid for my home. (We did tons of sweat equity. 24months and it will be mine. ) There are many more factors to consider. It is said that the most expensive smell in the world is the smell of a new vehicle. The initial cost is not only signifigant but insurance,taxes etc on a new one are all higher. The people at christian financial concepts have some good advice on buying vehicles. It is generally more prudent to shop for a two years old or older vehicle that has 30k or so miles on it. This is the period when they lose the most value and wise to let someone else that is more into materialistic pleasure lose it than you. I can do a lot of repairs each month if necessary on my clean 95 and still be considerably less than a new truck payment. The best part is I am free. Free from the financial bondage of large monthly payments. This frees up money for modifications or fuel. When fuel went up to 3. 45 here, many of my coworkers had to park their trucks because they could not afford the payments and buy fuel.

 

[PatrickCampbell]

I am happy with my used purchase.



As I will be pulling "for hire", I may consider a new vehicle in the future. It is nice to know what has happened to your vehicle but chances are that if you have to replace something expensive on a used vehicle, it is still going to be less than if you had bought new.



My 01. 5 was 14K over a year ago. A new truck setup the same was is over 30K.



There is not much "unknown" about these trucks...

 

[RT66DOC]

I bought mine new in '96 and planned then to keep it forever. Still haven't changed my mind on that. Didn't hurt that it just happens to be a 12v 215 pump truck which remains my all-time favorite. I don't pull anything with it but sure could if so inclined.



Same deal with the Jaguar - see sig. Bought it new for herself in 1978 and we'll never part with it. Also, we much prefer our Series II XJ6L to any of the newer Jaguars.



It helps alot that I understand these vehicles and enjoy maintaining them.



Don't ever plan to buy a new vehicle again but will buy used if and when we want/need something. Nice to be satisfied with what one has and have no payments to boot.

 

[mlewis73]

I bought mine new in '96 and planned then to keep it forever. Still haven't changed my mind on that. Didn't hurt that it just happens to be a 12v 215 pump truck which remains my all-time favorite. I don't pull anything with it but sure could if so inclined.



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Don't ever plan to buy a new vehicle again but will buy used if and when we want/need something. Nice to be satisfied with what one has and have no payments to boot.

Yeah... I'm just hoping the '06 will be reliable for 10 to 15 years. Or more. My '91 Ford is still going strong, but there's no electronic junk to screw things up aside from the transmission computer. The new trucks seem to have way too many sensors and way too many connections that will corrode over time, thus degrading performance and leading to expensive maintenance/repair bills.



That was Phase I of the EPA's plan to kill diesel pickups.



Phase II starts next year.

 

[EBottema]

Asking for 15 years of low cost, reliable service is almost on the same line as a pipe dream. It would be nice but it aint gonna happen. If money was no object im sure it can happen though. .

 

[mlewis73]

Well, on my '91 Ford I *have* had some expenses related to age and previous owner's poor quality rebuilds. But the truck starts and runs every day just as well as it did when I bought it 3 years ago, and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it cross country towing a load. It does lack in the power department, which is why I'm buying new, but it is reliable and can be worked on by anyone.



I'd expect a gently used truck to last 15 years, bottom line. I don't hot rod, don't offroad, and will tow 12,000 pounds occasionally and 8,500 fairly often.



There's no reason a truck with the proper equipment (i. e. , NO automatic transmission and no performance mods) shouldn't last 10-15 years (300,000 miles would be my guess) without a major expense if used in this manner and properly maintained (fluids), and that is my expectation. At $36,000 after tax for the truck I'm considering, I don't think this durability is unreasonable to expect. These things are expensive, and need to be built so that owners can recoup some of their expense by having a reliable, inexpensive to operate vehicle for several years after payments end.

 

[EBottema]

I agree, after spending that much money, you should expect things to last however they do not. I would expect a 12v to last 20 years without any major issues as long as it was taken care of. Mechanically, the new dodge should last that long too but you will be having issues with electronics soon before that. Some of these electronic parts might get scarce after 10 years and they rarely can be rebuilt.