Pusher Pumps vs. Hi Perf. Pump

[Bigsaint]

John, that's real interesting on those Mallory psi's. I'm curious if it ever blew the inline fuse. I have mine set up with a relay, using a 30 amp inline fuse from the battery to the relay and the 7. 5 amp (???) inline fuse by the pump. I've heard that they blow fuses if you push them past 15 psi's or so, but never tried. Mine is set at 13 psi's post filter, when warm, cold I see around 11-12 psi's, all readings at idle. My only concern with the higher psi's in regards to the Mallory is it's life expectancy. Your thoughts ????



I still have to wonder if my adjusting the Mallory dead head when the truck was off didn't help to destroy the first pump. I had that allen screw turned in quite far before I reached my desired psi's, which were only 12 psi's pre-filter then. When I adjusted the second pump, I did it with the truck running and it only took a 1/2 turn at most to see 14 pre and 13 post filter.



The one thing that I really like about the Mallory is that it is completely re-buildable, I now have a spare.



Todd, that's good info that the truck is still driveable with one pump down .



Scott W.

 

[csutton7]

John--I'm fairly sure that's the pump I'm using. . Summit #AEI-11101--pumps 500 gal/hr and can be used on fuel inj. engines up to 1000hp and it can put out a lot more than 45 psi. . I blew out the mallory regulator and have been using an Aeromotive regulator(I need to double check which one it is, but I think it was the Summit #AEI-13101) and ran a separate return line back to the tank---since I punched a hole in the bottom of the tank I'm gravity fed and used an Aeromotive filter before the pump and mounted the whole pump & filter on the inside of the frame---the regulator is mounted up by the VP44 and is setup just like you would a gasser---I'll take a pic next week-----chris

 

[Royk]

... as for the cooling fins... . it is going to be mounted under the truck... . so anyway you look at it what ever is mounted there will catch crud...

True, anything under the truck will catch crud. However, if the pump is engineered to actually require those fins to keep the pump from burning-out, they will not accomplish their task if they end up forming one solid mass of dried mud, etc. . If the fins are just there to look cool, then it shouldn't matter if they clog solid.



Has anyone ever experienced a warranty dispute with the dealer by adding a second pump at the tank or moving the stock pump?

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by csutton7

John--I'm fairly sure that's the pump I'm using. . Summit #AEI-11101--pumps 500 gal/hr and can be used on fuel inj.

OMG that is huge... are you sure it is not LBM/HR? I looked at the aeromotive pumps... and in Jegs they are rated in LBM/HR

 

[Diesel Freak]

Originally posted by Royk

True, anything under the truck will catch crud. However, if the pump is engineered to actually require those fins to keep the pump from burning-out, they will not accomplish their task if they end up forming one solid mass of dried mud, etc. . If the fins are just there to look cool, then it shouldn't matter if they clog solid.

I was refering to the filter... . not a pump motor

 

[csutton7]

diesel freak---500lbs/hr--you're right-- I wasn't paying attn. when I read the specs------chris

 

[Jetpilot]

500 Lbs/Hr..... Seems kinda small. Diesel fuel weighs around 8 Lbs. a gallon, so using 500 (divided by) 8=62. 5 GPH. A lot of guys are running pumps between 110-250 GPH. I believe the stock lift pump puts out 70 GPH, but don't quote me on that.



Just an observation.



Doug

 

[csutton7]

jetpilot---I'm not a 100% sure, but I don't think that's the way it's calculated--I could be wrong----she never drops below 11psi with all the goodies turned on @ WOT and this is thru a -08 line; post filter sending unit... . anyone out there know how they calculate LBS/hr in relation to gph/hr... ... ... chris

 

[tcourse]

pressure vs volume

How much pressure is really required to feed the Injection pump?

Wouldn't volume be more important than pressure?



Sorry, I'm just not getting the reasoning for high pressures ahead of the injection pump. Wouldn't any pressure at all be sufficient as long as you have the volume?

 

[redneckdr]

pushers

i'm going to add my . 02. may be worth less than that. before i had read on this as extensively, as i have now, i decided to add a pusher pump to feed the OEM. bought a diaphragm pump with 3/8"i/o fittings and mounted it back by the tank, down low. i found that the pusher, or the OEM alone would supply the engine, ie, run. i was not using my head well, perhaps, as i didn't have a FP gauge at the time. finally got my FP gauge in and found with both pumps running, had 21 PSI at idle, 12-14 at cruise, and 2-3Psi at sustained WOT . rechecked the capacity of the pusher--only 25 GPH at 7 PSI. currently i have the pusher off. OEM alone is running 13-15 PSI at idle, 11-13 at cruise and never goes below 5 PSI with sustained WOT. i concluded that a pusher is OK, but must have the capacity to move lots of fuel at WOT, and a small diaphragm pump is not the way to go. i still like the concept of a pusher feeding the OEM, IF EITHER ALONE WILL AT LEAST LET ME LIMP HOME!!! (and hopefully extend the life of the oem) i detest getting stranded on the road. still looking for the "perfect" pusher... ... ... ...

 

[John]

Chris, you described the Aeromotive pump I was asking about (The Aeromotive A1000 (Aeromotive part number)... it is the only high performance aftermarket pump on the market that employs a horizontal design and has "cooling fins" arranged in a radial style... i. e. , longitudinal fins around the exposed portion of its circumference of the pump... roughly 300 degrees worth). If I'm not mistaken, it will move more fuel than any high performance aftermarket electric fuel pump. Anyway, thanks for the info.



Royk, in respect to my comment on the "cooling fins" on the K&N fuel filter, I didn't really care if mud or crud would plug up the "cooling fins"... they don't perform any worthwhile function anyway. I just didn't want the possible buildup of foreign material on the outside of a filter I have to periodically service (i. e. , open up the filter body and remove the screen for cleaning). Additionally, I didn't want to go with the K&N billet aluminum fuel filter as it uses a disc type screen filter (as opposed to the pleated stainless steel screen filter in the System 1 filter I'm using... i. e. , much less filtering area). If that weren't enough to sway my decision, the K&N filter has a 10 micron rated filter whereas the System 1 filter is rated at 30 microns. Mallory requires a 40 micron (max. ) rated prefilter for their pumps... I wanted to be under their max. however, I didn't want its filtering media to be so fine that it would restrict fuel flow to the pump. Besides, the OE fuel filter element has a rating of 10 microns (24v), it will catch all the remaining impurities there, before they reach the injection pump. So as you can see, I gave a lot of thought into the decisions I made on component selection for my fuel system upgrade (dubbed: Operation Infinite Fuel Delivery) before I made them... I didn't just order a bunch of stuff without rhyme or reason as to how it all may work, I wanted to be relatively sure of cause and effect prior to implementing same. The only variable to all of this is..... how long is my Mallory 4140M going to last? That's the sixty-four dollar question.



Scott, I have been running about 17-18 psi (idle pressure after fuel has warmed up for a few minutes) since I solicited your input on the finer points of adjusting the Mallory fuel pump pressure late in November or very early December. By raising the pressure, I don't pull down the pressure nearly as far while under WOT. After readjusting the fuel pressure yesterday at the conclusion of my experiment, I now see 18-19 psi at idle... no problemo.



Also, I am not using the supplied Mallory 7. 5 amp fuse... I elected to go with an 8 amp circuit breaker which was a substitute for the supplied 30 amp circuit breaker in my Painless Wiring Electric Fuel Pump Relay kit. The circuit breaker is located near the PDC where 12v is sourced, running through 10 ga. wire to a project box located near the Mallory fuel pump. The project box contains my Painless Wiring relay and is mounted in a very secure place on the underside of a bed cross support brace... very trick and very protected. The remainder of my installation is detailed in another post I provided a link for on page 1 of this thread.

 

[John]

Terry, you are correct, the volume of fuel is what is paramount for the VP44. That said, I want to make sure I am doing all I can to make that happen. I was able to take either of the two OE lift pumps on my Ram (not installed on my Ram at the same time), and pull them down to about 3 psi at WOT... . and that was when they were nearly new! Personally, I would like to have a little more buffer than that. Also, as not many of us have a flow meter at our disposal, there's not much we can do to verify the actual flow. If you are happy with the way your fuel system is working, great! I'm extremely happy with the way my fuel system is working... ... . now!



BTW, one other reason that motivated me away from the Carter fuel (lift) pump in its stock location (i. e. , one half of the pusher pump method)... the lift pump in the OE location is relatively hard to change on an automatic equipped truck (with trick fuel lines)... and even harder on my Ram with all the other stuff I have in the way. The Mallory 4140M mounted to the outside of the frame allows easy R&R of the pump.

 

[John]

Originally posted by Bigsaint

John, that's real interesting on those Mallory psi's. My only concern with the higher psi's in regards to the Mallory is it's life expectancy. Your thoughts ????

Scott, I'll guess we'll just have to see.

Again, originally posted by Bigsaint

I still have to wonder if my adjusting the Mallory dead head when the truck was off didn't help to destroy the first pump.

I seriously doubt it!



My opinion of the demise of your first Mallory 4150 pump (based on my memory of the facts as you presented them): I personally think it was due to the intrusion of foreign material "locking" the pump (as stated could happen in the Mallory installation instructions). Remember, you didn't have any kind of prefilter installed until after you installed the replacement pump. Although, there is the possibility that low amperage to the pump (i. e. , no relay installed at the time either) could have played some sort of role in the shortened longevity of your first pump.



Anyway, let's toast to a long and happy life of our Mallory electric fuel pumps!

 

[hammersley]

Look - all you guys have had a ton of experience with these pumps - so please go easy with us who haven't screwed with them as yet. I've done a lot of mechasnical things - but I'm not a master mechanic, i. e. I don't rebuild engines or Trannies. As such - how hard is it to install the Mallory 4140 Marine Pump? For example how much jerry-rigging do you have to do regarding the existing one? Is it over my head etc? Does anybody have any photo's of their replacement?Is this something that we could do at the Pendleton Meeting later this spring? Also - here is the best place to buy one?

 

[hammersley]

sorry about spelling error

My last question on the Mallory 4140 marine pump - should ask (W)here is the best place to buy - not "here is the ... ... " Sorry, but was in a hurry and missed a letter.

 

[redneckdr]

pumps etc

hammersly, the mounting and plumbing and wiring oof the pump isn't difficult. time consuming, yes--difficult, no. you need access to the fuel line back by the tank. punching a hole in the bottomn of the tank doesn't sound like fun to me, and possibly complicated. you can buy a small tube cutter at the parts store, and cut the supply line to the front, and tag in the pump with good quality 3/8" fuel hose. i think the pump should be mounted as low as you feel comfortable, to promote gravity (siphon) feed. i believe you should put some kind of prefilter in front of the pump. for wiring, you have two choices. wire through a relay triggered by the wiring harness to the OEM pump, or independent of the OEM pump with a switch, and using switched power some way so the pump will shut down when the "ignition" is off. i preferred to go with option #2. i, or someone else can give you a plan to do it either way. one advantage of wiring through a switched relay is priming the system after filter change, etc.

 

[Mopar-muscle]

knocking on wood while posting ...

hold on there todd t ... my POS carter HP4601 is the same one i installed last march ,almost 30,000 miles, in the stock location , powered by the stock factory supplied voltage and over 400HP to the ground , thank you very much ...



on to the topic , one is the way to go , mounted back at the tank , when i get the time i will move my carter POS rearward .



i do carry the stocker in the back just in case

 

[csutton7]

tcourse--yes, kind of---you need some pressure to keep the diesel moving--there's been so much written about this it'll make your head spin--there are different views held by some--but me I want volume and some good pressure--I, as I think most others are, are using the pressure guage to monitor the health of our pumps and filters... ... . chris

 

[DiTrani]

Blows my mind...

... that this problem can't be fixed simply. I would've thought that with all the marine/construction/industrial engines out there, there'd have to be a fuel pump that would last past 100K without even thinking about it, regardless of where it was mounted.



Also, has anyone looked into building a redundant setup with two pumps that will feed in VP44 fine when one dies (i. e. probably not two pumps in series). Assuming pumps with check valves that reliably work, I'd think it'd work.

 

[Diesel Freak]

Re: Blows my mind...

Originally posted by cditrani

[BAlso, has anyone looked into building a redundant setup with two pumps that will feed in VP44 fine when one dies (i. e. probably not two pumps in series). Assuming pumps with check valves that reliably work, I'd think it'd work. [/B]

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Two Carter HP4601's in Parallel... why didn't I think of it sooner.



cditrani, You da Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!