Engine/Transmission (1998.5 - 2002) QSB1/B2 twins, towing and mach's

[DHayden]

I've been reading up alot about Don M's injector's. I'm focusing in on Mach 3's to Mach 4's or something in between. Ofcourse I want the most power I can have unloaded but I tow occasionally and I want to be able to tow heavy when I do.



With a B1/B2 settup and no comp box on what do you guys think the best size would be? Like I said, I don't tow often but when I do I tow heavy(15kish). With the box off will egt's be ok with mach 4's or maybe more with some throttle finess? 4. 5's or maybe 5's? OK I'm getting carried away again... . please input.



Are the 3's the best deal all around with smoke/power/atomization for this power range? I probly wouldnt need the twin setup for mach 3's but I'm planning on the twins anyway and I want to make the most out of them and still tow well.

 

[BillGotthelf]

With the B1/B2 combo you will have enough air to easily run 4's and not have egt problems. You could use 3's and a box like edge or tst and just adjust the power level according to your needs.

 

[DHayden]

I have an edge comp but wont be using it while towing anymore. The thread about the advanced timing and what it did made me realize I just need injector's while towing.



Did I put this in the wrong forum for responses or are you guys enjoying friday night out?

 

[DHayden]

Hohn? thejeepdude? Jrandol where are you guys? arent all you guys running mach's? If not you can still give me the opinions I need I'm sure. Anyone else with mach's please give me your experience with size's, egt and towing.



Maybe I can get this moved to products and accessories for more exposure?

 

[snowracer69]

I think the main problem is most of us running Mach's aren't running twins.



I'd love to have a B1/B2 setup, but it's a ways down the road. When I get there, I'll ask you for advice on what to run



W/ my M3's at 4000' at around 14,000 gross my EGT's were pretty high. Didn't matter box on 1x1, 3x5, 5x5, or off, they were the same when towing flat. On hills they'd climb rather steadily past 1300*F.



You should be ok w/ your twins and the M4's if you're not at too high an altitude.

 

[OPoole]

my ksb1b-b2 twins will be finished in a few days. Currently have Mach 3. 4 injectors with a KSB1B. once twins are complete i will run the Mach 5s. then i'll have more input.

 

[BillGotthelf]

I must be freakin invisible. Look at my sig and you'll see I am running Mach 5's and B1/B2. I suggested you run a box like the tst, it does not add any timing and has 10 levels to run on. yes you can run just the turbos and injectors for towing but unless you tow all the time get the box too. The power is impressive and very easy to chenge for towing or going.

 

[offshoreracr]

Originally posted by DHayden

I've been reading up alot about Don M's injector's. I'm focusing



With a B1/B2 settup and no comp box on what do you guys think



Which B1 are you going to run? KS,B1B,ect, it makes a difference in spoolup. I have both the full size B1,and the QSB1, with the quik spool lag is reduced considerably and at highway speeds you will already have boost, with the full size you will not have much if any. I would opt for a quik spool version, maybe a B1b or so. If you hardly ever tow why not just plop in your Bullydogs for the hour that it takes. Mach5's are a great injector and are totally streetable , 6's are streetable but you have to watch your foot. EGT's with no load hit around 1280ish, box off 1000/maybe 1100.



Fred

 

[DHayden]

I must be freakin invisible

ROFL sorry Billgotthelf, I didnt mean to make it seem that way at all. Your input is VERY much appreciated. I just like multiple opinions I guess, different effects for different people with same setup.



offshoreracer - I am already running a KSB1b so that will be my bottom turbo.



snowracer69 - I thought you had B1/B2 twins? I know you have/had twins, just didnt read your sig right I guess. 1300F with the mach 4's is pretty hot, or potential to get hot. Since I read your sig wrong what are you running?



Opoole - I am waiting in suspense for your feedback... . do you tow much? if so what kind of weight?



Thanks guys I appreciate ALL the help and appologize if I was seeming impatient or non appreciative, you know how the excitement goes...

 

[BillGotthelf]

DHayden I don't think you mean the KSB1B will be the bottom turbo-it is to small to be the primary. I think you mean the upper or secondary turbo used to push boostedair into the lower turbo.

 

[DHayden]

Yeah that's what I meant, my wife was giving me the evil eye waiting to go to the store so my brain just kind of went numb trying to finish the post , ever get one of those looks? :{

 

[DHayden]

Billgottelf - I forgot to ask you how much weight you tow with your truck? How much difference did the cam make 150F-200F? With whatever weight your pulling how much throtlle finess are you using? Last question, what is your max boost set at?

 

[Hohn]

Originally posted by DHayden

Hohn? thejeepdude? Jrandol where are you guys? arent all you guys running mach's? If not you can still give me the opinions I need I'm sure. Anyone else with mach's please give me your experience with size's, egt and towing.



Maybe I can get this moved to products and accessories for more exposure?

I wish! I think I have pushed the EDMs so hard that people think I have them!



Nope, I'm stuck with DD2s for now. Not a bad injector all around. It's enough to really wake up an ETH.



Towing with twins is a totally different game than towing with a single.



I would say a ksb1-b/b-2 combo could handle Mach 4s pretty easily. If you want to reliably tow though, I would go with mach 3. 5s The 3. 5s are enough fuel for 500hp with a single (more with twins), and will give you more control when towing when combined with a wire-tap box.



I would think that Fueling box/3. 5s would be PERFECT for what you want.



Justin

 

[kbond]

Re: Re: QSB1/B2 twins, towing and mach's

Originally posted by offshoreracr

Originally posted by DHayden

I've been reading up alot about Don M's injector's. I'm focusing



With a B1/B2 settup and no comp box on what do you guys think



Which B1 are you going to run? KS,B1B,ect, it makes a difference in spoolup. I have both the full size B1,and the QSB1, with the quik spool lag is reduced considerably and at highway speeds you will already have boost, with the full size you will not have much if any. I would opt for a quik spool version, maybe a B1b or so. If you hardly ever tow why not just plop in your Bullydogs for the hour that it takes. Mach5's are a great injector and are totally streetable , 6's are streetable but you have to watch your foot. EGT's with no load hit around 1280ish, box off 1000/maybe 1100.



Fred

Is the spool up quicker with the KSBb1 combined with the B2 or the same spool up as running it as a single?



Thanks,

Ken

 

[Hohn]

All small turbos will spool more slowly when used in a twins setup as the secondary. This is because all of the air the sec gets must first pass through the primary. So in order for the sec to spool, it has to suck the air through the pri and try to get it spinning. Thus, there's a partial vacuum the intake side has to fight to spool the charger.



I would run the ksb-1B with the B2. You'll want the faster spoolup. You'll also need a decent external wastegate on that charger because the tight housing and small wheel will choke the top end once the b2 spools. I would plumb in a massive TIAL wastegate (not cheap) and dump the gate into the face of the b2 to help it spool.



For what it's worth, it's almost a waste to use the ksb-1b as a secondary. In a twins setup, the secondary lives a pretty easy life, and a Dodgezilla or PDR40 would be more than adequate. You have that large B1 compressor, but what for? Once the twins spool, the primary is dong the work anyway.



Meanwhile, that huge compressor and its weight mean that the secondary spools slower, which means you have to go to a crazy tight housing and small wheel to get it to spool (and that means it won't flow well).



I think the B1 is a great charger, but it's overkill IMHO as a secondary in a twins setup. I think a Dodgezilla would be a better choice.



Now if your shooting drugs, (propane, NOS, water/meth, etc. ) then maybe you'll need the B1. But otherwise a PDR40 or DZ is a better choice IMHO.



Justin

 

[kbond]

Originally posted by Hohn

All small turbos will spool more slowly when used in a twins setup as the secondary. This is because all of the air the sec gets must first pass through the primary. So in order for the sec to spool, it has to suck the air through the pri and try to get it spinning. Thus, there's a partial vacuum the intake side has to fight to spool the charger.



I would run the ksb-1B with the B2. You'll want the faster spoolup. You'll also need a decent external wastegate on that charger because the tight housing and small wheel will choke the top end once the b2 spools. I would plumb in a massive TIAL wastegate (not cheap) and dump the gate into the face of the b2 to help it spool.



For what it's worth, it's almost a waste to use the ksb-1b as a secondary. In a twins setup, the secondary lives a pretty easy life, and a Dodgezilla or PDR40 would be more than adequate. You have that large B1 compressor, but what for? Once the twins spool, the primary is dong the work anyway.



Meanwhile, that huge compressor and its weight mean that the secondary spools slower, which means you have to go to a crazy tight housing and small wheel to get it to spool (and that means it won't flow well).



I think the B1 is a great charger, but it's overkill IMHO as a secondary in a twins setup. I think a Dodgezilla would be a better choice.



Now if your shooting drugs, (propane, NOS, water/meth, etc. ) then maybe you'll need the B1. But otherwise a PDR40 or DZ is a better choice IMHO.



Justin

thanks for the insight Justin. I agree 100%. I already have the ksb-b1 so the money's been spent.

 

[Hohn]

OK, I guess I missed that part. I'm sitting tight until ATS releases it's BB single for the CTD this summer. Supposedly it will support 500hp with instant spool up, and ATS says it's the toughest BB charger on the market. Well, that's their opinion, and since they make it, they might be biased



Still, I like the idea of a BB single that will support 500hp and have positive pressure ratios all the way to 40+psi.



Anyway, the B1 in your setup is sunk cost, so you have to look at things objectively. Maybe you would be $$ ahead selling the ksb-1 and going to a wastegated Holset or hybrid. If you keep the B1, you'll have to drop the $$ on a major bucks WG. If you downgrade to a DZ or PDR40, the housing is already gated, so you'll be set.



So when you account for the WG costs, maybe a downgrade would be cost-effective?



Anyway, if it were me, I'd just take advantage of the uber-toughness of the B1 and install a 15# NOS bottle





Justin

 

[DHayden]

I'm no turbo expert, but my KSB1 has a waste gate. It's not in use and has a cover plate over it, I'm not sure how it all works but I know it's there.

 

[kbond]

Mine too!

Originally posted by DHayden

I'm no turbo expert, but my KSB1 has a waste gate. It's not in use and has a cover plate over it, I'm not sure how it all works but I know it's there.

Yep. Talking with Ken @ Turbo Auto diesel in Phoenix said we can make it work for the twins too. Not sure how ideal it is but it tecnically can be used.